Dsrtjeeper Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Excellent! Thinking of putting Forte speakers at our desk. I am listening on a 50 watt amp, a thinking if can get the speakers setup, will see if the bass is there.They should match. Room is about same size as my music room...to be. They could be raised slightly, as long as checking it out. Here I can have fun with the positioning. Room size Interesting conversation. Congrats I'm told that the Fortes have a bit more bass slam as the main woofer and passive are larger. Both the Quartet and Forte have the same mids and tweeters. Good luck with your room as these Klipsch speakers seem to be a whole different animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 My room is 12' x 13', so I've had the same issues with multiple speakers that you're having now.If the positioning Klipsch Geek suggested didn't help, try what I did:Move your seat against the back wall and move your speakers 1/3 into the room (sounds like 4' in your case). I was recently out of town visiting a shop and the owner suggested this. Went against what I believed at the time so I didn't try it for months until I got curious one day. It worked great for me. It may not be possible for you to leave it this way, but it may give you a clue to what's going on. My speakers are 4' into the room and about 8' apart (I forget exactly) and I finally have pretty good sound in there. I also have GIK products, the corner bass traps help a lot. The positioning you describe is how I normally listen. With the Klipsch; soundstaging falls apart and the bass drops off too much without the passive near a room boundary. This is just my experience. My local audio dealer has all five of his demo rooms set up with the listening chair against the back wall and the speakers pulled out into the room. The sound is always so captivating and not bass heavy like one would assume. This positioning provides uncanny realism and a deep and wide soundstage floating in air. I'm curious; what are GIK products? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 The positioning you describe is how I normally listen. With the Klipsch; soundstaging falls apart and the bass drops off too much without the passive near a room boundary. This is just my experience. My local audio dealer has all five of his demo rooms set up with the listening chair against the back wall and the speakers pulled out into the room. The sound is always so captivating and not bass heavy like one would assume. This positioning provides uncanny realism and a deep and wide soundstage floating in air. I'm curious; what are GIK products? Thanks! I have 1 corner trap in each corner behind the speakers and 2 of the 244 panels hanging on the wall behind me. They made a big difference. Upper bass is more defined and doesn't sound like it's coming from anywhere/everywhere, and low bass is musical and not one note. The problem I had before GIK was that the bass was muddying up the midrange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 The positioning you describe is how I normally listen. With the Klipsch; soundstaging falls apart and the bass drops off too much without the passive near a room boundary. This is just my experience. My local audio dealer has all five of his demo rooms set up with the listening chair against the back wall and the speakers pulled out into the room. The sound is always so captivating and not bass heavy like one would assume. This positioning provides uncanny realism and a deep and wide soundstage floating in air. I'm curious; what are GIK products? Thanks! I have 1 corner trap in each corner behind the speakers and 2 of the 244 panels hanging on the wall behind me. They made a big difference. Upper bass is more defined and doesn't sound like it's coming from anywhere/everywhere, and low bass is musical and not one note. The problem I had before GIK was that the bass was muddying up the midrange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 The positioning you describe is how I normally listen. With the Klipsch; soundstaging falls apart and the bass drops off too much without the passive near a room boundary. This is just my experience. My local audio dealer has all five of his demo rooms set up with the listening chair against the back wall and the speakers pulled out into the room. The sound is always so captivating and not bass heavy like one would assume. This positioning provides uncanny realism and a deep and wide soundstage floating in air. I'm curious; what are GIK products? Thanks! I have 1 corner trap in each corner behind the speakers and 2 of the 244 panels hanging on the wall behind me. They made a big difference. Upper bass is more defined and doesn't sound like it's coming from anywhere/everywhere, and low bass is musical and not one note. The problem I had before GIK was that the bass was muddying up the midrange. I just checked out their products and they are well priced. I can't believe how thin their 244 panels are for bass traps. Are they Hemholz Resonator design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 http://www.atsacoustics.com/ I use these as well as GIK. They do the trick. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I KNOW THE SOLUTION!!!! You need to get Heresies....... You will never have boomy bass with them. [] (OK; seriously; they are an awesome speaker that many describe as bass shy; but with a correctly placed sub; they are right there with many other Heritage speakers)...... Almost the polar opposite of your issue...... Good Luck..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 The 244s are not hemholtz. They are several inches thich with a space between the wall and back when mounted. I never took out just the 244s or just the corner traps to check the effect separately. GIK was very helpful with looking at drawings and pics and suggesting what to by and where to put the stuff. I didn't buy everything they suggested so I may go back and buy 2 more corner traps. 30-day money back I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Things are looking better! Moved my listening position in one foot where my ears are 27" from back wall. I then stood diffusive panels in the two front corners. Absorbing panels were placed at the first reflection point behind each speaker. I also changed out the power cord. These changes netted more detail; tighter bass and ambience. The sound is more controlled and refined. The mids are a bit harsh at this point and I'm looking to solutions. Thanks for all the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 The 244s are not hemholtz. They are several inches thich with a space between the wall and back when mounted. I never took out just the 244s or just the corner traps to check the effect separately. GIK was very helpful with looking at drawings and pics and suggesting what to by and where to put the stuff. I didn't buy everything they suggested so I may go back and buy 2 more corner traps. 30-day money back I believe. I might have to check into that. Nothing like good customer support. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch_Geek Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Glad to hear things are sounding better. I would have gotten around to toe-in and sound treatment eventually. In my current room, with KHorns, I have eliminated the treatments, but it is an odd shape and I have had good luck. In the last room, placing HF absorbing panels behind and at the first reflection point really cleaned up the vocals and strings without losing anything noticeable. the best thing now would be to shift everything 6" to the left or right, realizing that the speakers an chair will be off-center. That may or may not work for you, and if you can't shift the front speakers, you could adjust toe-in on the two a little off from each other and then just scoot your listening position about 6"-12" off center. This should improve your bass performance even more, but it will be a little finicky to get the toe in just right, and unfortunately you don't have that much room to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Glad to hear things are sounding better. I would have gotten around to toe-in and sound treatment eventually. In my current room, with KHorns, I have eliminated the treatments, but it is an odd shape and I have had good luck. In the last room, placing HF absorbing panels behind and at the first reflection point really cleaned up the vocals and strings without losing anything noticeable. the best thing now would be to shift everything 6" to the left or right, realizing that the speakers an chair will be off-center. That may or may not work for you, and if you can't shift the front speakers, you could adjust toe-in on the two a little off from each other and then just scoot your listening position about 6"-12" off center. This should improve your bass performance even more, but it will be a little finicky to get the toe in just right, and unfortunately you don't have that much room to play with. Thanks for your help! Could you run my current measurements through and see what you get on your software? Center of woofer to front wall is 25". Center to side walls is 30". My ears are 27" from back wall. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 New development. At the advise of one member; I pulled the speakers 4ft into the room with my seat against the back wall. What a revelation! This is basically how my room has been set up with most every system in there. It works even with the passive radiator. Bass has slam now and is more even across the lower octaves. I can easily live with this positioning. I just need to tweak the toe in and I should be good. I have found that my wimpy 3 watts/channel amp is under powered. Time for a larger tube amp. This has been one learning experience but I have everyone here to thank for their help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I have found that my wimpy 3 watts/channel amp is under powered. Time for a larger tube amp. You really need fully horn loaded (Khorn, La Scala, Belle) if you want that small an amp to work. Also depends on the synergy between the speaker/crossover and the amp. My crossovers are constant impedance, which tube amps really like.I pulled the speakers 4ft into the room with my seat against the back wall. What a revelation!My LaScalas have their best imaging when I have them about four feet from the back wall, too. Width of the sound stage is no different, but the depth is better. I just can do it right now due to other room layout considerations. Glad you got it worked out. Let us know how it goes with your journey for a larger amp.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 New development. At the advise of one member; I pulled the speakers 4ft into the room with my seat against the back wall. What a revelation! This is basically how my room has been set up with most every system in there. It works even with the passive radiator. Bass has slam now and is more even across the lower octaves. I can easily live with this positioning. I just need to tweak the toe in and I should be good. I have found that my wimpy 3 watts/channel amp is under powered. Time for a larger tube amp. This has been one learning experience but I have everyone here to thank for their help. The way this was explained to me by the owner of the shop I mentioned is that the signifigance of the 4' is that it is 1/3 into the room. He said something about wavelengths, room nodes...I wasn't really paying attention because I didn't think it made sense since it went against what I believed (specifically to put your head right against the back wall). I later found that this is the Audio Physics method: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/audiophysic.html Good luck finding an amp. Way too many options. What's your budget? btw: That shop is in Phoenix area - Near you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 New development. At the advise of one member; I pulled the speakers 4ft into the room with my seat against the back wall. What a revelation! This is basically how my room has been set up with most every system in there. It works even with the passive radiator. Bass has slam now and is more even across the lower octaves. I can easily live with this positioning. I just need to tweak the toe in and I should be good. I have found that my wimpy 3 watts/channel amp is under powered. Time for a larger tube amp. This has been one learning experience but I have everyone here to thank for their help. The way this was explained to me by the owner of the shop I mentioned is that the signifigance of the 4' is that it is 1/3 into the room. He said something about wavelengths, room nodes...I wasn't really paying attention because I didn't think it made sense since it went against what I believed (specifically to put your head right against the back wall). I later found that this is the Audio Physics method: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/audiophysic.html Good luck finding an amp. Way too many options. What's your budget? btw: That shop is in Phoenix area - Near you? What is the name of the shop? I'm in Glendale just outside of Phoenix to the north. I remember reading the Audio Physics setup years ago. There was another setup procedure called WASP I believe. I can't remember who wrote it but you basically walked around the room clapping and talking while someone sat and listened in the listening position. That always worked for me as well and the speakers were always out into the room. http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 I have found that my wimpy 3 watts/channel amp is under powered. Time for a larger tube amp. You really need fully horn loaded (Khorn, La Scala, Belle) if you want that small an amp to work. Also depends on the synergy between the speaker/crossover and the amp. My crossovers are constant impedance, which tube amps really like.I pulled the speakers 4ft into the room with my seat against the back wall. What a revelation!My LaScalas have their best imaging when I have them about four feet from the back wall, too. Width of the sound stage is no different, but the depth is better. I just can do it right now due to other room layout considerations. Glad you got it worked out. Let us know how it goes with your journey for a larger amp.Bruce That's what I figured after I became more familiar with SET and horns. The Quartets are not quite efficient enough and I'm sure the x-overs aren't helping. Who built your x-overs? I bet those La Scalas sound beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 What is the name of the shop? I'm in Glendale just outside of Phoenix to the north. I remember reading the Audio Physics setup years ago. There was another setup procedure called WASP I believe. I can't remember who wrote it but you basically walked around the room clapping and talking while someone sat and listened in the listening position. That always worked for me as well and the speakers were always out into the room. http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html Arizona HiFi @ http://www.tubeaudio.com/ Dan Mazza is the owner, great guy with a nice shop. 10 W Camelback Rd., Phoenix, AZ 85013(602) 264-4434 (264-HIFI) The WASP setup is Wilson Audio Setup Procedure. An audio friend of mine recently got Wilson Watt / Puppy 8 and said they came in and did that when they set up his speakers. They ended up maybe 1' between the wall and the back of the speaker, which probably put the speaker faces 3' or so into what was probably a 18' deep room. So not 1/3 for sure. I really wanted to pull the speakers into the room because I thought the soundstage was shallow/compressed against the wall. But they did sound mighty fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsrtjeeper Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 What is the name of the shop? I'm in Glendale just outside of Phoenix to the north. I remember reading the Audio Physics setup years ago. There was another setup procedure called WASP I believe. I can't remember who wrote it but you basically walked around the room clapping and talking while someone sat and listened in the listening position. That always worked for me as well and the speakers were always out into the room. http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html Arizona HiFi @ http://www.tubeaudio.com/ Dan Mazza is the owner, great guy with a nice shop. 10 W Camelback Rd., Phoenix, AZ 85013(602) 264-4434 (264-HIFI) The WASP setup is Wilson Audio Setup Procedure. An audio friend of mine recently got Wilson Watt / Puppy 8 and said they came in and did that when they set up his speakers. They ended up maybe 1' between the wall and the back of the speaker, which probably put the speaker faces 3' or so into what was probably a 18' deep room. So not 1/3 for sure. I really wanted to pull the speakers into the room because I thought the soundstage was shallow/compressed against the wall. But they did sound mighty fine. LOL! I knew you were going to say Dan Mazza! That's where I learned to sit against the back wall and pull the speakers into the room. I purchased my first tube amp there back when they opened in Tempe; AZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 LOL! I knew you were going to say Dan Mazza! That's where I learned to sit against the back wall and pull the speakers into the room. I purchased my first tube amp there back when they opened in Tempe; AZ. Small world, bro. When I was there he just moved from somewhere, he led me to believe it was from a bigger place in Phoenix but it could have been Tempe. His new place is pretty small and packed. I listened to a Leben amp (EL84 I believe) and I think Proac speakers, but I could be wrong. Sounded real nice. Dan was extremeny acommodating knowing that I was from out of town and just joy riding. He's got some good stories about the old days let me tell ya'. Sold a few thousand tubes to Eva Ann Manley after meeting her in a bar, stuff like that. A memorable visit for sure. I kept looking for something I could use so I could at least do some business; cables, tubes, something, but left with only a few CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.