Subwoofer Dilemma - Opinions?

[Domain]

Hi all,

I've been fairly successful tackling "upgraditis" (mostly due to my college student budget), but I'm finally starting to succumb to its grasp again, and am hoping to get a opinions on my "subwoofer dilemma".

A year ago, I purchased a "pre-packaged" Klipsch set (SF-1, SC-1, SS-1, KSW-12) and for what I payed I couldn't be happier with the performance, but I've always felt a little disappointment on the bass end (seems like something is missing). I've just brushed it off thus far, but now I'm strongly considering a change in this area.

So, anyway to on the real question: I've been looking and perhaps purchasing one the SVS PCi series subwoofers (20-39, or 25-31), but unfortunately I don't have any first hand experience with these, just what I've read in reviews. So I was hoping to find some opinions regarding this matter.

Does anyone have any side by side experience with these models (or similar)? If so, how noticeable is the difference? Also, any opinions on how one of these things would match/not match the rest of my speakers?

It is quite easy to be deluded into spending more money believing I'll get better sound...I just don't want to make the mistake of buying a sub, that is either not going to live up to my expectations, or is going to be so radically different performance wise, it will overshadow the rest of my system.

I appreciate any replies,

Domain

This message has been edited by Domain on 04-19-2002 at 04:17 PM

[TheEAR]

Well I never tested any SVS CS sub but I did have a pair of SVS Ultras on loan and did compare these to my subwoofers(from tiny Sunfire Junior to the large supercube HGS18 and Aerial,my fave sub).

Lets just say the SVS Ultra can dig as deep as any sub,even over 5 grand!The SVS Ultras can play as loud as any sub,even at 6 grand!!And above all they cost much much less!!! Now this is good news

The only drawback to SVS it these subs are BIG,very large in fact.Sure the footprint is small,but a single SVS Ultra(or PC,CS or any SVS)is quite large.And unless you order a SVS SS the finish is AHEM cheapie(I hare the cloth covered cylinder look).

Besides these two rants all else is top noth.From the great quality,massive drivers to the optimisation its all A-1.And above all else sub bass quality and quantity is among the very best.

I can take a good guess the PC or CS line will sound similar with less output.So you get alot for the few dollars you spend.Buy the SVS,they are a great buy.

When I move to the larger place I will order two SVS Ultras(or maybe spend extra and get the SS,the finish looks mighty classy).

Bottom line,SVS makes great subwoofers at down to earth prices.Barrels from DOOM,you bet.Seismic barrels

This message has been edited by TheEAR on 04-20-2002 at 12:36 AM

[HornEd]

Unfortunately, the creation of a quality subwoofer is a study in trade-offs. The reason the top-of-the-line SVS subwoofers are based on the 20-39 basis (tuned to 20Hz and 39" tall) is that most ears get the most benefit from that combination.

While I prefer to select (and potentially change) the power amp than feeds my pair of 20-39 based Ultras... it must be said that the SVS powered cylinders are much improved from what they were a year ago.

The waves created by a quality sub are so large that the more a design engineer digs for organ pedal lows... the more other worthwhile sub concepts tend to be compromised. As an example, the RSW-15 is an excellent, highly musical subwoofer (and has a high construction cost to prove it)... but it is only tuned to reach down to 24Hz! -HornED

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Photo update soon! -HornEd

[dougdrake]

I don't have any side-by-side with the 20-39 and a KSW-12, but I do with a 20-39PC and Velodyne CT-120 (which is probably a reasonably close competitor to the KSW-12).

While at first I didn't notice a huge difference, the SVS did provide more depth and strength than the Velo. As I listened to it more, I found that the SVS was just stronger and deeper overall, and that it never seemed to strain even when being tortured by the classic killer bass tracks. It had the ability to really rumble the walls for HT, and to hit the subtle (if you can call it that) bass strains in music that I hadn't really noticed with the Velo.

Not a very scientific response, but bottom line is that given the choice, I'd go for the 20-39 if I were you.

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My System

[Hipnotic_Tranz]

For what it's worth, I have the 25-31pci and love it to death. I have nothin' to compare it to, but it fills my 9x12 room with more bass than I could EVER use.

[Domain]

I appreciate all the replies

From the countless reviews i've read, message boards i've scoured, and the replies here, I suspect I won't be disappointed with one of these subs, but I suppose I can always send it back if thats not the case.

The "size" issue shouldn't be too much of a problem I hope (I'm working with a limited space bedroom/HT combo), from the measurements of their website, the "floor space" is similiar to the KSW-12, just 4 times the height . Looks aren't too much of an issue either, i'm really more concerned with the sound output anyway, but those SS sure are pretty.

As for the KSW-12 I just have mixed feelings about this one. Sometimes it does everything I expect, sometimes I have to peer into the corner to make sure its actually on. Maybe its too "subtle", i'm not quite sure how to explain it, but there are times when I want to "feel" the bass, and it just isn't happening. I suppose its a sorta unfair comparsion as well (the SVS is $350+ more than what I payed for the KSW), but the input was definately helpful. I plan to keep it around even if the SVS makes it here though, i've become awful attached to my HT gear in the past year

Thanks again,

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Domain

This message has been edited by Domain on 04-21-2002 at 09:30 PM

[fabulousfrankie]

My second HT setup is when I became a Klipsch man. I bought the KSW-12 along with KSF8.5, KSF-C5, and KSF-S5. At the time I couldn't have been happier with the sub considering I got it for $250 new. Since then I have gone through a few setups and now I've finally settled the sub issue with my single SVS 20-39cs plus/Samson S1000. The SVS is leaps and bounds better than the KSW-12, in every aspect a sub can be. I was also afraid it would live up to my expectations but everytime I turn it on it still makes me smile:^)

Here is the list of my past sub setups. Out of all these the SVS is the clear winner in quality and quantity.

In chronological order:

1.) Eosone RSP-910 (part of RSS-705 system)

2.) Klipsch KSW-12

3.) Infinity IL100s

4.) 2 Infinity IL100s'

5.) 2 Infinity IL120s'(very musical)

6.) 2 Klipsch LF-10's

7.) Infinity HPS-1000($480-PHENOMENAL VALUE, sold on ebay for $825 and if it weren't for SVS, I think it would be the best that could be done for even the selling price)

8.) SVS 20-39CS Plus w/Samson S1000(worth every penny!)

Each sub set set did get better and better. If I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't have gone with the KSW-12, I think that better can be had for the same price or cheaper.

BOTTOM LINE: I don't think you'll be disappointed with the SVS

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FABULOUSFRANKIE

This message has been edited by fabulousfrankie on 04-21-2002 at 11:45 PM

[HornEd]

FabulousFrankie is right on! I have been down his road... and then some! I would have saved thousands of dollars and had years more of enjoyment had I gotten to where I am sooner. Of course, the problem with that is that where I am was not available years ago.

I have tried and passed on many subwoofer configurations because those under 90Hz frequencies are so important to replicating the sound of a live concert or fully appreciating a spectacular action DVD.

Out of my respect for the acoustics knowledge of Dr. Floyd E. Toole of Harmon Industries, an experiment using all upscale Infinity speakers and subwoofers. It was a great learning experience from BASH sub amps to their proprietary room adjustment system for subwoofers.

Out of my respect for genius of Paul W. Klipsch I moved through several Klipsch scenarios... that migrated into a 6.1 system using three KSW-12's and two KSW-15's.

Out of my respect for Tom Vodhanel, I bought two of the first dozen Ultra's ever produced and fed them with a Samson 1000. To produce a maximum benefit from one corner, the Ultras were stacked vertically bottom-to-bottom in a custom built rack... a low-down, seven foot giant sub set.

Please bear in mind, that I am looking for the deep satisfying bass that my 94 year-old mother can enjoy... and not the distorted THUMP, THUMP, WHUMP of a RAPtured Teen driving by with the windows down. I want the "being there" bass of a Bach Organ Concert, or Deep Purple featuring the Steve Morse Band... from the subtle rumble in a U-boat deeper than it ought to be... to the roar of an Apollo moon launch. Sure, "WHAT IT IS" for real is never quite "what it is" in your living room. But in HT, close counts for more than it does in horseshoes. -HornED

PS: I have been enjoying myself so much that I haven't explored the wonders of the Klipsch RSW subwoofer line that has received so much glowing praise.

This message has been edited by HornEd on 04-22-2002 at 07:00 AM

[j-malotky]

Hi All

If I could please expand on this topic some and ask for some guidance since I do not know anybody in my area who has an SVS subwoofer to listen too so I am relying on your good peoples experience!!!

I see FabFrank's reply here - and his new thread about selling this SVS to get a pair of Ultras and I really do not want to follow in his footsteps in the next months....

When the CS+ line came out last month - I was going to get a pair of 16-46 CS+ for my new HT I am building, even going as far as running a 1 1/2 ID conduit to the corner, to pull more lines if I need to upgrade to 4 in the future, as EAR thinks I will need.

After reading HornED's replies about why the new lines are based on the 20-39 enclosure really makes sense. You really don't hear under 20Hz so I might as well save the DB's I would have lost and go with the 20-39 models.

So here is my latest dilemma. Do I get the CS+ or the Ultra. I am really tempted to try the CS+ and save the $800 difference. I could buy a 3rd CS+ for that money.

Do I still consider the 16-46 CS+ ? It is only $100 more than the 20-39CS+. Is the 4 HZ worth the DB loss?

Would you people who have the Dual Ultra's say they have the power of 3 or maybe 4 CS+'s

FAbFrank - I would be interested in hearing what you think after you get your new dual SVS Ultras.

HornEd - I always like reading your advice - Just read your center channel reply in another thread and you are always so thorough in your writing. A real plus to this BB.

Any advise is really appreciated???

Thanks

JM

[Danartdis]

Hey Ears, where can I find the JBL TiK sub that you have referred to? I saw the TiK series on the JBL site but it looked like main and surround only.

Dan

[TheEAR]

Looks like JBL removed pics and info on the Ti-K subs.

It may be caused by some problems they experienced with the amps/EQ ?

E-mail JBL if you would like to know why they removed the Ti-K sub info.

TheEAR(s) Now theears