denti Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I just got the Reference 61 II bookshelf speakersfor a small listening room in my house. They are being powered by a self-built Bottlehead S.E.X. amp. I've owned a pair of B&W 601s for about 15 years, and these served me well, though they are now downstairs as part of my home theater system. I wanted to make a listening room upstairs and knew I would need new speakers (I had an old pair of Paradigm Atoms in here until now). I needed a relatively cheap (around $500) pair of speakers that had a somewhat higher than usual sensitivity (the S.E.X. amp is low powered), so Klipsch was an obvious first choice. I am very sensitive to speakers that are too "dark" or "closed" on the upper end, and since Klipsch has a reputation for wide open, detailed highs, I thought they would be an even better match. And indeed the highs are amazing. My only concern is that they seems almost TOO bright. I thought I would never feel this way about a speaker, but I do here. I'm worried because I've already felt a little fatigue in the ears from listening to longer than 20-30 minutes. My questions are: will the speaker's ultra-bright highs tone down with break-in? I have heard different opinions about whether "break-in" even exists, and some have said it's just one's ears adjusting. The other question has to do with bass and placement. The bass is fine, though I wish it were a bit more robust. Will the bass settle in more prominently with break-in? and to what degree is bass performance affected by how the speakers are placed? That is, I have one on a wooden chair, and the other on a little stool. I could place them on the floor, but I wanted to get them at ear level. If I put them on something heavier and studier would there be a noticeable difference in bass? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Denti, Welcome to the forum. How do you have the RB-61II positioned? Are they toed in directly toward your listening. If so, try pointing them a little off axis to tone down the brightness a bit. A quality stand with spikes would be better for all frequencies and maybe placed close to the corners will help with the bass response. A speaker as small as the RB-61II would not be beneficial placed on the floor. Have you considered a sub to help out with the bass? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hey Denti, welcome to the Klipsch Forums, we're glad you're here. What's the room like? Carpet? Wood? Art work on walls? Bookcases, etc...? Also, bi-amping with a little more power to the woofer, will help bring it "alive", especially at lower volumes. Again, Welcome to the family and remember, we don't believe in stupid questions, just stupid people who don't ask questions. [] Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denti Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Thanks for the welcome. Room is about 12x12 or so, but bookcases are lining most of the walls, so it's closer to 10x10. Carpet. And I do have them angled right at me. My amp won't allow me to bi-amp (I don't think), so that's out. What kind of budget speaker stands might I look at? Neither of you address the break-in question. Will I notice changes to the highs and lows after a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Thanks for the welcome. Room is about 12x12 or so, but bookcases are lining most of the walls, so it's closer to 10x10. Carpet. And I do have them angled right at me. My amp won't allow me to bi-amp (I don't think), so that's out. What kind of budget speaker stands might I look at? Neither of you address the break-in question. Will I notice changes to the highs and lows after a while? Sorry about that. As you mentioned, there are many different opinions on break-in. Sure, there could be some break in time. Or maybe it is our ears getting use to the new speakers? When I replaced the crossovers in my La Scalas, with brand new ones, I thought it sounded better and better, over a two week period. But again, was it me getting use to them? I really can't say for sure. Give it a couple weeks and adjust the placement, closer to the wall, further from the back wall, etc.. Also address any room problems, if possible. Klipsch speakers are very revealing and can bring out weakness in the system and the room. Give it some time and attention and I bet things get better. Adding a Sub will help fill in the bottom end, if bi-amping is out of the question. Keep us posted and enjoy the ride! Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hey Denti, welcome to the Klipsch Forums, we're glad you're here. What's the room like? Carpet? Wood? Art work on walls? Bookcases, etc...? Also, bi-amping with a little more power to the woofer, will help bring it "alive", especially at lower volumes. Again, Welcome to the family and remember, we don't believe in stupid questions, just stupid people who don't ask questions. Dennie Hello Denti, welcome to the forum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I just got the Reference 61 II bookshelf speakersfor a small listening room in my house. They are being powered by a self-built Bottlehead S.E.X. amp. I've owned a pair of B&W 601s for about 15 years, and these served me well, though they are now downstairs as part of my home theater system. I wanted to make a listening room upstairs and knew I would need new speakers (I had an old pair of Paradigm Atoms in here until now). I needed a relatively cheap (around $500) pair of speakers that had a somewhat higher than usual sensitivity (the S.E.X. amp is low powered), so Klipsch was an obvious first choice. Those little Reference RB speakers are quite nice. I really liked the pair that I got to listen to a little while back. However still rocking with these RF-7s now for 9 years! (I dug out my old receipts - date purchased - 04-13-02). Geez! I cannot believe it has been that long - I still remember the day I brought them home - but I digress.... Still love them to this day and STILL amazed at how awesome these things sound, even after listening to some pretty darn nice rigs in the time since. I am very sensitive to speakers that are too "dark" or "closed" on the upper end, and since Klipsch has a reputation for wide open, detailed highs, I thought they would be an even better match. And indeed the highs are amazing. My only concern is that they seems almost TOO bright. I thought I would never feel this way about a speaker, but I do here. I'm worried because I've already felt a little fatigue in the ears from listening to longer than 20-30 minutes. My questions are: will the speaker's ultra-bright highs tone down with break-in? I have heard different opinions about whether "break-in" even exists, and some have said it's just one's ears adjusting. Oh yeah. Compared to B&Ws, those Klipsch are going to come off sounding much more dynamic and yes, the highs will be that much more pronounced. First, as was already mentioned, you may want to experiment with placement. Also certainly worth investing in a decent pair of speaker stands for those things as well. Just a real quick Google search turned up something like these, which seem pretty decent. As for the breakin question, the jury is still out on that one. There are those that think the sound does seem to "settle in" and gets a little warmer as everything loosens up. There are others that think it is all placebo and it is just you (as the listener) getting used to the new speakers and the new sound. That is one reason why I prefer dealing locally if at all possible with major speaker purchases, so I can listen to them for a week or so and see if I still like them afterwards (allow some time to get "settled in" with them). If I don't like them, then I can return them locally. The other question has to do with bass and placement. The bass is fine, though I wish it were a bit more robust. Will the bass settle in more prominently with break-in? and to what degree is bass performance affected by how the speakers are placed? That is, I have one on a wooden chair, and the other on a little stool. I could place them on the floor, but I wanted to get them at ear level. If I put them on something heavier and studier would there be a noticeable difference in bass? Thanks. Well, smaller bookshelf speakers, by their very nature, is not going to produce thundering bass. Another reason why it is worth investing in a decent pair of stands, as it may help a little bit. In addition, you are listening to them through a little Bottlehead amp, with what - 2 watts - of power per channel? Those things are not exactly known for getting the most out of the bass response out of a pair of speakers. In addition, the reference series can be somewhat difficult to drive at the low end due to a fairly low impedence curve (at least that is the case for the RF-7s, which is why I have a 200 watt/channel B&K Reference 200.7 amp on mine!). Actually, I was tempted to buy one of those Bottlehead kits myself just to try my hand at building an amp, plus it looks like fun to play with. If you need more bass, then you may have to seriously look into adding a sub or get a beefier amplifier. Again, experimenting with the placement of the speakers may help as well (which, along with getting some decent stands), I would try before spending the money on sub or more powerful amps (especially if you really like that Bottlehead amp and wish to keep it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsilva Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 My questions are: will the speaker's ultra-bright highs tone down with break-in? I have heard different opinions about whether "break-in" even exists, and some have said it's just one's ears adjusting. Whether it be speaker break-in or adjusting "ears", the effect is the same Don't worry about that part. But since you asked, I did quite a bit of in-depth research on this years ago and could only conclude there is no speaker break-in. I wanted it to be true, but I don't think the jury's out on the issue. What actually prompted me to look into it was when I bought some new RB-75's to replace some KSB 3.1's. When I first compared the speakers, side by side, the RB75's didn't have any more bass than the KSB's (though they sounded far better). I moved the KSB's to another room and after a few weeks of listening to the RB75's I was absolutely certain they had developed more bass. 100% certain. No doubt in my mind. A couple of months later I sold the KSB's and before shipping them I decided to compare them again, side by side, to the RB75's. The situation was exactly the same as when I first compared them. Exactly. I was very disappointed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I think skonopa nailed it. Your Bottlehead, IIRC, is designed for higher impedance speakers, so it may be having trouble providing the power into the impedance dips it's facing in the lower registers. That would definitely tip the response up. Does the amp have lower impeadanct taps you can connect the speakers to? If not, the bi-amping suggestion is a good one, or more simply, just using a more powerful, low impedance friendly amp. Bottlehead may offer different output trannys for lower impedance loads, but I'm not sure about that. Either way, you may have to do more than adjusting speaker placement to get the results you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denti Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 Bass isn't that big of an issue. I'm certainly getting more than I used to. I know I can get more bass out of the amp if I upgrade the transformers, so at some point I'll do that. The Bottlehead is designed for speakers with 8ohm impedance, so I don't think that's the issue. The sensitivity on the 61s is a bit lower than recommended (Bottlehead recommends minimum 96 or 97db), but the amp (although only 2 watts per channel) is plenty loud. I would never need to turn the volume all the way up. I'll play around with placement and look for some stands and see how they sound to me in a month. I have 60 days to return if I need to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Hmm. It seems you're pushing the limits as far as power and speaker sensitivity go. If you end up returning the 61's, keep an eye out for some used Hereseys, or perhaps Quartets or other larger (if your room can accomodate them), more sensitive models. 2 watts makes my forte ii's sing. I've always personally preferred the three way Heritage models to the reference line, and you may too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denti Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 Yeah, I wanted to get the Heresys or Cornwalls, but don't have the funds right now. Plus this room is pretty damn small, so I really don't need the extra power. I could return them and go for these: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1316996531&/Klipsch-Forte-2-w/Major-mods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Considering those fortes are already hot-rodded with Crites upgrades, it's actually not a bad price. Also, I've found that my fortes do better in small/moderate sized rooms, even though they're pretty large. Hereseys would require subs to compete, and Cornwalls are awfully big for a small room; they're huge in comparison to fortes. Even if you get those, if your sex amps use the older trannys, it would make sense to get the bigger MQ trannys that bottlehead is now using, as that will extend the bass response of the amps down further, to take advantage of the forte's deeper capabilites. The older trannys start to roll the bass off below 40hz, and the fortes will dig deeper than that. I believe the MQ trannys will go below 30 before they roll off, and probably with less distortion too. It'd be a shame not to take advantage of that capability, even if you can't do it right away. Welcome to the madness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denti Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 But not a good price, either? I'm in SC, so he won't ship to me, but my dad's uncle lives in Pheonix, so I could get him to pick them up for me. The question, then, is how much it will cost to get them to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I'm in SC These may be worth a shot. Great price if in good condition and still available. http://columbia.craigslist.org/ele/2476183327.html Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denti Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 Thanks. Perfect. I've sent him a note. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 But not a good price, either? It's not unreasonable [the Phx pair]. If you get those local ones [a very good deal] and do the same upgrades you'll have about the same amount wrapped up in them, but without the added cost of shipping. I shipped a pair of fortes across the country for ~$120. Good luck with the local ones. If they're in good condition, jump on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Wow, that looks like a pretty good deal to me! $350? I might jump on them if you have the funds! Keep us posted, Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denti Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 They're gone, and the modded ones may also be gone tomorrow (another potential buyer in line before me). If not, I can get them, but I'll have to figure how to ship them for cheap . How did you do it for under $120 Ski Bum? Separate boxes? UPS or USPS? EDIT: then there's these, which are within driving distance, though I don't know if all these mods are really for the better ...? http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/ele/2503248039.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denti Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Looks like these are still available and I may get them. What should I be asking about / listening for / looking for when I go to check these out. I don't want to end up with a pair that has been poorly worked on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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