2 Bookshelf speakers for Center?

[TurboGen]

Well, my center speaker isn't all that great compared to the rest of my speakers it's the weakest and oldest and everything else overpowers this center...

I hooked up one of my spare SB-20's to my center channel and it sounds a lot better than the KV-1 I had Hooked up

Is there a way for me to hookup both of my SB-20's for a center speaker? I have both front and rear center option.. Could I use an SB-20 on each one and put them both on the front? How would this work?

Thanks

[JasonJCarney]

Your biggest problem is that you are changing the ohm load on your avr when you connect two speakers.

[TurboGen]

I believe I Have both a front and a rear center option. Could I use both and place both in te front?

[cbope]

I doubt you can reassign the rear center to be a front speaker, at least I have never seen that option in an AVR before. As mentioned before, connecting both to a single channel may give you impedance problems. What is the impedance rating for each speaker? The majority of home speakers are 8 ohm. If you wire two 8 ohm speakers in series, you end up with a 16 ohm load on the amp. Not a big problem, except you may have level issues. At 16 ohms, if all your other speakers are rated 8 ohms, you may not be able to set the level high enough on your center channel. It won't hurt your amp though. If you wire in parallel, however, you then create a 4 ohm load on your amp. Many AVR amps cannot drive 4 ohms well, unless it is a higher end AVR which can supply a lot of current. In the worst case, you can damage your amp by pushing it to drive too low of an impedance. Even if your amp can handle it, you may have level issues anyway, as your center will now be much louder than the rest of your system.

Can you use a single speaker for your center channel, or is it not able to keep up with the rest of the system?

[pite]

I really doubt if you can re-assign your rear-center channel as a 2nd front center channel and then connect two bookshelf speakers as left/right center channel speakers as you would like to.

Having said that, you can connect an amplifier to the pre-amp section of your current amplifier. I mean connect the pre-amp center channel output to the 2nd amplifier and then use the left and right channels of that amplifier to your two bookshelf speakers. The only cavet is that you need that pre-amp out for center channel in this option. [8-|]

Good Luck!

[TurboGen]

I was wondering about that, how would sound with both front and rear center at the center.

i currently took away the KV-1 center speaker and put a SB-20 bookshelf speaker in it's place and it sounds much better! I was going to look into a SC2 center speaker but I was trying to do with what I already have and didn't know If having two bookshelf in place of one center would be better or not.. I'll stick with the one bookshelf untill I get the C2 center speaker that matches te rest of the system.

thanks!

[pite]

With that, you might already have achieved premium-quality audio from center channel!!!

Until, two real 'Klipsch Center Channel Speakers'! hehe...[]

Nice...[H][Y]

[Ngyen Hung]

I ve not compared a bookself with a center but I did compare 1 bookself wiht 2 bookselves in the center position. The result is that the sound of 2 is lounder and much better than 1

[mustang guy]

I have doubled the center using Paradigm Cinema 220's, and it does sound better as it offers a flatter response and about a 3db gain. I suppose the only thing you need to bother with is that you wire them so as not to change the ohms outside the amp/avr limits, and adjust the gain on your amp/receiver.

To check impedence, wire the thing up to the speakers, and check the resistance from the feed end (where you will wire into the amp/avr). The only thing I'm not sure of is how you know the impedence at different frequencies. I use a simple ohmeter, and my lascalas which are rated at 8 ohms, return about 4 ohms with a simple resistance test. It's all a bit confusing.

edit: I have heard that new amps and avr's are much more tolerant than older ones, as they are active control devices.

[mustang guy]

Somebody build an Impedometer. http://www.cartchunk.org/audiotopics/ImpedMeasureFAQ.pdf

Life is too short to be this confused, I'm moving on to other pasture. Gonna go do some fly fishing.

[Ngyen Hung]

It is correct that new amp/recv accept both 8 omh and 4 omh speakers and with 4 omh speakers amp/recv produce more ( nealy double) power.

[cbope]

I have doubled the center using Paradigm Cinema 220's, and it does sound better as it offers a flatter response and about a 3db gain. I suppose the only thing you need to bother with is that you wire them so as not to change the ohms outside the amp/avr limits, and adjust the gain on your amp/receiver.

To check impedence, wire the thing up to the speakers, and check the resistance from the feed end (where you will wire into the amp/avr). The only thing I'm not sure of is how you know the impedence at different frequencies. I use a simple ohmeter, and my lascalas which are rated at 8 ohms, return about 4 ohms with a simple resistance test. It's all a bit confusing.

edit: I have heard that new amps and avr's are much more tolerant than older ones, as they are active control devices.

The difference you are seeing is because a multimeter can only give you a DC resistance measurement, not an impedence measurement. DC resistance you can measure directly with a multimeter, but impedence is a bit more complicated, because it is the effective "resistance" to an AC signal. You won't be measuring impedence with a simple multimeter directly, it must be based on measurements and calculation together. That's a very over-simplified description, but my point is that since speakes are rated based on thier impedence, not resistance, a simple measurement will not give you the correct results. This is why an 8 ohm rated speaker may measure a different DC resistance using a multimeter.

[cbope]

It is correct that new amp/recv accept both 8 omh and 4 omh speakers and with 4 omh speakers amp/recv produce more ( nealy double) power.

Not all modern amps or AVR's can drive 4 ohm speakers. If you try to drive 4 ohm speakers with an amp that is rated only for 8 ohms, you will likely trip the amp's protection circuitry. If it's a very poor design it could even damage the amp.

[cbope]

One last thing regarding hooking up 2 speakers to a single channel. You need to be careful not to exceed the amp's speaker rating by giving it a load greater than it is rated for. For example driving a 4 ohm speaker with an amp rated for 8 ohms. When you wire up 2 speakers, you have 2 choices: series or parallel wiring.

In series wiring, you wire the - amp output to one of the speaker's - terminal, connect a wire from the + terminal of the same speaker to the - terminal of the second speaker and finally from the + terminal of the second speaker to the amp's + terminal.

In parallel wiring, you wire the - amp output to both speaker's - terminals and the + amp output to both speaker's + terminal.

Where you have to be careful is the parallel configuration. When wired in parallel, the speaker impedence of the two speakers together will be halved. For example, wire two 8 ohm speakers in parallel and the impedence to the amp is now only 4 ohms. Too low for many amps to drive without shutting down.

In series wiring, you don't need to worry, because the impedences are then additive, in other words two 8 ohm speakers wired in series becomes 16 ohms. Using a higher impedence will not damage the amp, but it will require more power to reach the same volume levels as an 8 ohm load.

[mustang guy]

One last thing regarding hooking up 2 speakers to a single channel. You need to be careful not to exceed the amp's speaker rating by giving it a load greater than it is rated for. For example driving a 4 ohm speaker with an amp rated for 8 ohms. When you wire up 2 speakers, you have 2 choices: series or parallel wiring.

In series wiring, you wire the - amp output to one of the speaker's - terminal, connect a wire from the + terminal of the same speaker to the - terminal of the second speaker and finally from the + terminal of the second speaker to the amp's + terminal.

In parallel wiring, you wire the - amp output to both speaker's - terminals and the + amp output to both speaker's + terminal.

Where you have to be careful is the parallel configuration. When wired in parallel, the speaker impedence of the two speakers together will be halved. For example, wire two 8 ohm speakers in parallel and the impedence to the amp is now only 4 ohms. Too low for many amps to drive without shutting down.

In series wiring, you don't need to worry, because the impedences are then additive, in other words two 8 ohm speakers wired in series becomes 16 ohms. Using a higher impedence will not damage the amp, but it will require more power to reach the same volume levels as an 8 ohm load.

You raise a good point. Why not simply wire in series? You get a 3db gain with having 2 speakers on one channel, and the rest can be made up for using the avr/amp gain adjustment.

[moray james]

just wire the two book shelf speakers in series that way your amp will be happy with the load. Give it a try and see what you think. Best regards Moray James.

[garyrc]

just wire the two book shelf speakers in series that way your amp will be happy with the load. Give it a try and see what you think. Best regards Moray James.

Of course, you can try the series wiring (stay way away from the parallel) and see if you like the sound. The trouble is you might like it at first -- because it's different -- but may not like it so much later.

• Years ago, i considered a similar set-up; JBL told me that two upper midrange or treble speakers cheek by jowl, receiving identical signals, might introduce objectional peaks and dips in frequency response (I think I remember that they told me that this was not often much of a problem when doubling woofers because the wavelengths in the bass are so long).
• Things that sound fascinating at first may wear thin in a while. There was a famous case at a recording studio in the S.F. bay area. One of their Altec 604Es sounded "better" than the rest -- or at least different. Many of the engineers and producers really liked it and wondered why the other 3 channels (there were 4 604Es across the front, but they didn't receive identical signals) didn't sound as "good." Gradually the staff fell out of love with this speaker, and began to think something was "just wrong." They ran a sweep, and found a considerable dip in the response in the midrange, compared to the other 604Es. Someone took the speaker enclosure apart and found that the crosover was hooked up incorrectly, not providing the manufacturer's intended phasing of the mid/high horn-speaker and the bass.
• If you want to hear the center channel the way the artists intended it, I'd say that eventually you should get a good center channel speaker. []

[Ngyen Hung]

Hi All,

I ve tried to hook 2 bookselves to singgle center channel with preseting volume level for each channels. Finding that 2 bookselves soung lounder one center and to protect receiver I set level for center at - 3 (min for all is - 12 and max is 12) and other channels at 7. Everything is very good.

[mustang guy]

Glad it worked out. Good discussion, and better result.