Anyone else notice this with RB-61 Vs. Rb-61II?

[Zen Traveler]

...If running Audyssey sets all your speakers to the maximum negative level often -12 (but this varies by manufacturer) then the attenuators can help Audyssey work correctly. I found the attenuators to have many nice benefits for sound quality.

Fwiw, if Audyssey is setting all of your speakers to the maximum negative, then I have read the culprit is usually how you have your subwoofer set up. Then again, if your conversation with Chris had him recommending that you use attenuators makes me think it's something to do with your external amp and I would be interested what that dynamic would be... [^o)]

[Rich_Guy]

Rich, I had a similar conversation with Chris on facebook. He told me to lower my seat backs when running Audyssey XT32. Audyssey also sets my RF63s and RC64 to 60hz-70hz. I did not adjust my speakers with my SPL meter this last time because Chris was explaining that the Audyssey mic is much more accurate that a ratshack meter. I do have a calibrated SPL meter from one of the guys over at AV forums. I used to be a stickler for using my SPL meter right after Audyssey. You just have to make sure you take mesurements from the EXACT same position as the other mic.

There is no doubt about it my SPL meter does a much better speaker level adjustment. it is not a matter of placement or chair backs. With my SPL meter I can make my system settings sound amazing, Audyssey's settings just don't compare. If you are happy with what Audyssey is doing for your settings that's fine but I have done enough with Audyssey on my own system to know I prefer using my own SPL settings. Audyssey may have improved I have one of the early versions and also a different Audyssey mic than what you have.

I am extremely happy with how my system is set up, its settings and how it sounds. I have done a lot of research, experimenting, comparing, toying around and consider myself to be very good at getting the best sound out of my system and I absolutely love the way it sounds.

[nezff]

Rich, I had a similar conversation with Chris on facebook. He told me to lower my seat backs when running Audyssey XT32. Audyssey also sets my RF63s and RC64 to 60hz-70hz. I did not adjust my speakers with my SPL meter this last time because Chris was explaining that the Audyssey mic is much more accurate that a ratshack meter. I do have a calibrated SPL meter from one of the guys over at AV forums. I used to be a stickler for using my SPL meter right after Audyssey. You just have to make sure you take mesurements from the EXACT same position as the other mic.

There is no doubt about it my SPL meter does a much better speaker level adjustment. it is not a matter of placement or chair backs. With my SPL meter I can make my system settings sound amazing, Audyssey's settings just don't compare. If you are happy with what Audyssey is doing for your settings that's fine but I have done enough with Audyssey on my own system to know I prefer using my own SPL settings. Audyssey may have improved I have one of the early versions and also a different Audyssey mic than what you have.

I am extremely happy with how my system is set up, its settings and how it sounds. I have done a lot of research, experimenting, comparing, toying around and consider myself to be very good at getting the best sound out of my system and I absolutely love the way it sounds.

Thats fine with me, You like what you like and I like what I like.

[Rich_Guy]

...If running Audyssey sets all your speakers to the maximum negative level often -12 (but this varies by manufacturer) then the attenuators can help Audyssey work correctly. I found the attenuators to have many nice benefits for sound quality.

Fwiw, if Audyssey is setting all of your speakers to the maximum negative, then I have read the culprit is usually how you have your subwoofer set up. Then again, if your conversation with Chris had him recommending that you use attenuators makes me think it's something to do with your external amp and I would be interested what that dynamic would be...

I have only used Audyssey with my PR-SC 885 processor (no built in amps) so I can't make any comparsion I have always had the external amps using Audyssey.

I am going by memory now since it has been a while but my original Audyssey runs set all my speakers levels at "-12" which is their maximum negative number, except the sub which has a maximum of "-15" and that is what Audyssey set the sub at. Using the attenuators Audyssey set everything I believe somewhere between "-4" and "+4" if I recall it may have even been closer, as I said it has been a while. I use the -15db attenuators at all seven of my amps XLR inputs, I do not use an attenuator on my sub I just set the subs volume lower. Using the attenuators seems to work better for Audyssey, keeping levels in a better range than being maxxed out at their negative. Again I have found I prefer using my own speaker level settings using my SPL meter.

Using the attenuators also has some very nice benefits and I really like what they do for the sound of the system (Audyssey or no Audyssey). With the attenuators I raise my volume 15db to make up for the volume drop. but the attenuators also seem to add more levels of lower volume detail which is a very nice improvement. I have also found using the attenuators also gives an overall improved sound musically, warmer, less harsh and I think a nicely improved sound quality. I think that the change with attenuators is probably very similar to upgrading the speaker crossovers, the speakers lose some of their brightness and I feel have an overall improved sound. I have been very happy with the result.

Anyway I was posting this to give others ideas, I always encourage people to play with their systems and learn their settings and experiment to what they like and what sounds best. What works best for one person doesn't work best for everyone, but it is also good to find out what works well for others so you can compare. I've done a lot of playing around, comparing and experimenting and I just wanted to pass on some tricks which have worked very well for me.

[Zen Traveler]

Anyway I was posting this to give others ideas, I always encourage people to play with their systems and learn their settings and experiment to what they like and what sounds best. What works best for one person doesn't work best for everyone, but it is also good to find out what works well for others so you can compare. I've done a lot of playing around, comparing and experimenting and I just wanted to pass on some tricks which have worked very well for me.

Thanks for sharing your ideas and I agree everyone should experiment for themselves. I just wanted to clear up what your personal solutions to having "off the chart" trim numbers was verses what Chris Kyriakakis of Audyssey thought about your situation and what he advised you to do....

I've done considerable research on Audyssey and also taken some special recommendations by Chris founder of Audyssey as well as have a lot of experience with adjusting my own systems. The results are a very nice natural sounding well balanced HT and much more musical 2 channel....

Klipsch speakers being as efficient as they are can play havoc on Audyssey and often can cause Audyssey to run off its level settings bottoming out to the maximum negative speaker level settings (basically run off the charts). A recommendation by Chris of Audyssey which helps Audyssey with its settings and one of the tricks I use which I think adds a little warmer sound and works well with Klipsch speakers is using inline attenuators. Using the attenuators tames any harshness and gives a more detailed smoother sound, they bring out a warmer more refined detail. Using attenuators also allows Audyssey to work in its correct range and not bottom out at the maximum negative speaker levels.

I have followed the Audyssey Thread on the AVS forum since its inception and his "special" recommendation of using inline attenuators to address your excessive negative trim levels intrigued me, because I had never heard that Klipsch speakers presented a problem for audyssey and in fact were used in their initial experiments.

Anyway, this is WAY OT for this thread, but if you have a link to your original discussion it would be appreciated...If not, I have nothing else to add and hope the OP likes his new RB-61IIs.

EDIT: BTW, Here is a search for "Klipsch" on the AVS Forums Audyssey Owners Thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=19314808

[Zen Traveler]

Fwiw, if Audyssey is setting all of your speakers to the maximum negative, then I have read the culprit is usually how you have your subwoofer set up. Then again, if your conversation with Chris had him recommending that you use attenuators makes me think it's something to do with your external amp and I would be interested what that dynamic would be...

I am going by memory now since it has been a while but my original Audyssey runs set all my speakers levels at "-12" which is their maximum negative number, except the sub which has a maximum of "-15" and that is what Audyssey set the sub at.

After thinking about your situation overnight I am real curious what Chris said when you told him that not only your speakers were hitting the maximum negative, but also your sub, because it REALLY makes me think his first recommendation would be to look at the volume you were running your sub. Fwiw, your speakers are sensitive but your RT-10d is not and if it's at -15 it seems that your speakers are trying to keep up with it....If not, it would be going the other direction to keep up with your speakers. {Note: a good experiment would be to run audyssey without your sub and see if you still get those extreme trim levels}

Fwiw, your results were what I was getting and as I lowered the volume on the subwoofers the other speakers trim levels started getting in-line. My speakers' Sensitivity ratings are between 97 dB and 101 dB and after lowering the volume to my subs Audyssey set my RF-7s to "-4 & -4.5, respectively, although it still set by subwoofers @ -11....I ran it again and came up with the same numbers (within a dB or two). Btw, my HT listed below is in a less than 2,000 cu ft room and I sit 9.5 ft away from my front soundstage.