Mallette Posted May 20, 2002 Author Share Posted May 20, 2002 Well, on my deathbed I'll not be one of those poor audiophiles who suddenly realizes "DuhO! I coulda had Klipschorns!!!" Of course, you all know how they sound, so I won't go into that. First played: Final movement from the Columbia/Biggs/Ormandy/Philadelphia recording of Saint Saens 3rd Symphoney "The Organ" Had to do this, as this was what PWK played for me in in lab back in 1972. Of course, he was running a 30ips 2 channel tape on an Ampex 450 studio deck through his Saul Marantz amps. Nonetheless, I almost leapt through my skin when the organ came in. Certainly have to do something about the Sony P-4300 turntable soon. My daughter cratered my Grado a while back, so I am stuck with the old Audio-Technica cartridge. Real problems tracking the high stuff. Need to get the ST-70 rebuilt. The HK Citation 12 has that "transistor sound." Of course, all that is GOOD. Now I am hearing EXACTLY what is wrong with the system rather than listening as through a glass, darkly. Went from there to the Empire/Grado setup for 78's, which faired much better than the LP setup. The Crew-Cuts "Sh-Boom" happened to be on the turntable, so that is what I played. Awesome. Never heard a CD sound that good! Must spend LOTS of time in the 78 collection. Then it was the Columbia/Biggs "French Organ Music" disk of about 1965. This disk is well-known for having solid 32' organ output. It is there, indeed. Went from it to the Telarc/Murray Methuen Hall DD recording of 1976, which also has the Widor. More 32' than the Columbia. Shook the whole neighborhood, I am sure. The AT cartridge faired better here. Enoch Light "Big Band Hits of the 30's" on the Project 3 label was really, really, bright. Clean, but bright. Think they leaned heavy on the treble to emphasize the "HiFi" claims on less than optimum systems. Maybe the ST-70 will help. Hooked up the Sony RM-500 DAT deck and put on my master tape from a piano recital I recorded. It is Stuart Wayne Foster, winner of the Dallas 3rd International Organ competition who dedicated a donated grand piano at my church. The recording was made on the RM-500 using Beyer ribbon mics through an HBH vacuum tube mic preamp. This absolute blew me away. OK, it's blowing me own horn, but this is the very finest piano recording I've ever heard. Sounds like a PIANO. His "Clair de Lune" tore my heart out. This experience caused me to go next to a recording I made of an ad hoc wind/string octet group made up of Dallas Symphony musicians. Same thing. Totally real. I think the problem with CD's must be mainly in the players...I can attest there is nothing wrong with untranscoded 16/44.1 audio. Then "I Think We Are All Bozos on this Bus" with the Firesign Theatre. Yes, I am a Firesign Freak, but the main thing here was to see how the Fraziers on the Quadaptor in the rear were really performing. The Firesign discs have a WEALTH of out-of-phase info. The Fraziers mesh with the K's wonderfully. Stuff flying seamlessly all over the room. Well, about 1800 more LP's to get to, then I suppose I'll turn to the CD's... Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 David, I think the problem with CD's as compared to a good analog recording is the nature of how the information is laid-down/picked-up. In an analog recording on a record, all the musical information is there, it just takes the right stylus and cartridge to pick it all up. But on a CD, whichever signal is the strongest at a particular micromillesecond is what gets the nod to be put onto the format to be refracted by a laser...leaving the rest of the signals out of the picture...and thereby losing the fidelity found in analog recordings. I noticed this when comparing CD's to record albums early on after the introduction of the CD format...something was always missing from the CD that the analog recording retained!...ESPECIALLY on "live" recordings!! The only thing that saves grace on DAT is the larger amount of signal input info that can be put down on the magnetic tape as compared to a CD! We have little choice but to accept the CD as the primary format in this day and age though...its advantage in smaller size, convenience, and "no scratches" to have to listen to has left us analog folk searching through rummage sales and used record shops to try and find good condition analog recordings of our favorites, I am sad to say! On a positive note, though...with today's resurgence of high-end turntables to audiophile set-ups...if the trend continues, then maybe the recording companies will take note and come out with "original master recordings" on vinyl to fill the void they left when they spurned vinyl in favor of the CD format!!...Who Knows? Stranger things have happened!!! It seems whenever a market is found, a product shows up to fill the niche!! Glad you are enjoying those k-horns so very much...I kinda figured you would!! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 21, 2002 Author Share Posted May 21, 2002 Well, as I said in my earlier post, I do not think it is the 16/44.1 sampling rate as I once did. Having made numerous location recordings using it over the past several years, I feel the standard has been criticized when other issues are actually to blame. The first thing my wife heard (to bring in the thread) on the "new" horns was the solo piano recording I mentioned. She agreed it was the best piano recording she'd ever heard. As I am sure you are aware, absolutely nothing is more difficult to record than piano. I'd also point out that most of my CD's sound much, much better after being copied to HDD as WAV files and played back through a high-end sound card. Of course, the CD is just a medium, and (IMHO, though some golden-ear tweaker types ((no offense intended)) disagree) for storing digital information. CD's I make from my DAT masters sound as good as the original when re-transfered back to the DAT. I performed this experiment to reassure myself that no transcoding was going on, and that it was the CD player(s) and not the digital info that was at fault in the percieved deterioration of audio quality from my masters. I do not own, nor have I had the opportunity to live with a high end CD player, but I suspect that getting top quality sound from a CD is probably MORE expensive than what is required to get the same or better sound from an LP...though certainly possible. JMHO. Dave BTW, I am going to copy this and repost it to the 2 channel sound group, as I'd like to hear more opinions on it and I don't think many are following this thread anymore. ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 David, Wouldn't it be nice for somebody to come out with a linear tracking turntable that uses multiple lasers to read the grooves in a record in an oversampling set-up, so as to render inert the scratches and such found on the record, not even touch the groove, and provide a quality of reproduction that exceeds the current turntables available? The laser could constantly adjust the speed of the linear tracking to stay in sync with the spread of the grooves, too! The technology is here...where the hell is the turntable? KLIPSCH AUDIO TECHNOLOGIES!!! ARE YOU READING THIS??? HOW ABOUT THE MONDIAL/ARAGON DIVISION...GETTING THE HINT HERE? ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 05-21-2002 at 12:38 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 HDBRbuilder, Check out this link for some laser turntables. Hmm, the prices have dropped, but still out of my league. Greg http://www.elpj.com/ ------------------ HK AVR20 II Toshiba DVD 32" Toshiba TV Odyssey Stratos 1976 LaScala's Front L&R KV-1 Center KG 1.5 Rear L&R KSW-12 Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 I was already aware that laser turntables existed, but I was kinda hoping Klipsch audio tech would come out with one...know what I mean Vern? It seems the prices are dropping considerably now-a-days...when compared to what they originally cost!!...a "good thing"! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 21, 2002 Author Share Posted May 21, 2002 Great Googly Moogly. I remember this thing but assumed it was long dead. It was 25,000.00. These folks have it down to 6000.00, which implies that it could drop into my range if enough get sold. They will demo it IN YOUR HOUSE at this price? I presume they line up LOTS of demos before hoping the big blue lake. Seems to me one could pay for one selling transcriptions to CD for people. Must give it some thought... Got to be a way. Hmmmm... Thanks for the link...I am going to keep up with this. I've not heard a WORD in the audio press...though I only take Listener and $tereophile. Not having much luck migrating this to 2 channel. :-> Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Dave, just catching up on posts now. Great review of your Khorns and sound. Right on. Like your music selection, as well. I would guess that you don't have the midrange problem on your Khorns; you would have heard it (squawker screaming at 8 Khz). If you email me (robinsonc@attbi.com) I send photos of the restoration process. Will be off the road tomorrow. BTW, I love Firesign as well. Nick Danger is still my fav, but Morescience High was a classic for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.