shake777 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 If I make my choice using the Audioholics review of each sub its almost impossible to choose anything but the SVS. It appears to be a monster at a very attractive price. As much as I love the Velodyne name and look of the 15+, it doesn't seem to cut the mustard by comparison. Help please those of you who know what you are doing as I'm still young (57) and impressionable. I've already received approval from the one who wears the pants (the Boss, the High Poobah and Muckity Muck) for the 15+ so $ are not as important as performance. Maybe when the house actually does fall down, she'll see the value of a great system. Insurance company here I come! OK, enough Tom Foolery. Please help and thank you in advance. Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Get the SVS and don't look back. Great product, great support, awesome performance. I stopped buying things based on their "name" years ago and couldn't be happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 In terms of raw output capability vs distortion, you'd need to look towards the bigger and even costlier 18+ for something approaching a fair fight against the PB13U; this comparison simply highlights the advantage a large vented sub has over a smaller sealed model. About the only thing the Velo 15+ offers over the SVS is on the electronics side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake777 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 All, My overall impression of the two was based more on the final Score Card than anytihing else. The SVS has better numbers unless I am misinterpreting. I realize the entire review is to be considered yet for someone who has trouble absorbing and choosing the most important information the score card is appealing but somewhat useless unless its verifieed by you who understand entirely. Thanks again. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't know that you'd want to base the decision entirely on the scorecards as I'm unsure how consistent they are between reviews; however, in no uncertain terms, the PB13U is a significantly more powerful sub than the DD15+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't know that you'd want to base the decision entirely on the scorecards as I'm unsure how consistent they are between reviews; however, in no uncertain terms, the PB13U is a significantly more powerful sub than the DD15+. Can you elaborate on that? It looks on paper like the SVS is more powerful. Also, don't rule out the JL Audio subs. They are a cut above the Paradigm DSP's, which are awesome. You get a JL 13.5 starting at about $3500 I think. If you really want to go nuts, look at the Gotham sub. You should get two of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Can you elaborate on that? It looks on paper like the SVS is more powerful. PB13U, 15Hz Tunehttp://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/svs-pb13/PB13ULTRA15HZCEA2010CHARTPASS.png/image_view_fullscreen DD18+ http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/digital-drive-plus-18/LDD18SERVOGAIN8CEA2010CHART.PNG/image_view_fullscreen DD15+ http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/velodyne-dd15/velodyne-dd-15-measurements-analysis At 20Hz, the PB13U dominates even the DD18+, with 109.2dB and 11.26% distortion versus 103.6dB and 26.78% distortion. The DD15+ is pushing 97dB with an unspecified amount of distortion. With a 12dB advantage at this point, it would take a quad stack of DD15+'s to meet the output of a single PB13U. From 32Hz to 80Hz, the PB13U averages 115.5dB output and 7.1% distortion; the DD18+ isn't far behind with 114.6dB and 8.3% distortion. The DD15 averages about 109dB, again with unspecified distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake777 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 All, Not sure if this is more interesting or more aggravating but who would say (2) JL F113 trumps them all. Two are great I'm sure but how does one JL stand up to one SVS? That's the real question now. Thanks again, Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I've read in a comparison that the SVS and JL are pretty even from 30 Hz up. From 30 Hz and below, the ported SVS will have MUCH more output. The variable tuning on the SVS is nice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Can you elaborate on that? It looks on paper like the SVS is more powerful. PB13U, 15Hz Tunehttp://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/svs-pb13/PB13ULTRA15HZCEA2010CHARTPASS.png/image_view_fullscreen DD18+ http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/digital-drive-plus-18/LDD18SERVOGAIN8CEA2010CHART.PNG/image_view_fullscreen DD15+ http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/velodyne-dd15/velodyne-dd-15-measurements-analysis At 20Hz, the PB13U dominates even the DD18+, with 109.2dB and 11.26% distortion versus 103.6dB and 26.78% distortion. The DD15+ is pushing 97dB with an unspecified amount of distortion. With a 12dB advantage at this point, it would take a quad stack of DD15+'s to meet the output of a single PB13U. From 32Hz to 80Hz, the PB13U averages 115.5dB output and 7.1% distortion; the DD18+ isn't far behind with 114.6dB and 8.3% distortion. The DD15 averages about 109dB, again with unspecified distortion. Thanks for the links! Great information. As the SVS comes in either upright, or cube, I wonder if the upright isn't slightly better than the cube sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I've read in a comparison that the SVS and JL are pretty even from 30 Hz up. From 30 Hz and below, the ported SVS will have MUCH more output. The variable tuning on the SVS is nice too. Indeed. Here's a chart of some outputs including the JL F113 and the older PB13U with the Bash amp. http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5748-cea-2010-standard-compilation.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 As the SVS comes in either upright, or cube, I wonder if the upright isn't slightly better than the cube sub. SVS typically maintains there won't be much audible difference between the cubes and their corresponding uprights. However, I think I've read that the cube has slightly more internal volume, and slightly deeper tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake777 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thank you for all the time and effort you put into helping me. This should be the last of it. I keep reading review after revew that two (2) JL F112s are really nice because they are small enough to be plenty quick and the two of them are big enough to push some air. I think this might be the way to go. What do you think? They seem to be made with lots of care and are really solid. I heard an F110 a while back and it was pretty impressive. If the two 112s don't make a lot of sense I'm just going wait until something seems really right for me as my current set of subs are decent enough. In fact if a Paradigm Sub 12 or 15 came along I'd ****** it up as I love the sound from the sub 12 I own; Its got plenty of bottom and is very musical. I guess that's what I'm expecting form the F112s but I could be dead wrong. Any 112 owners out there? Thanks again, Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I guess the obvious question hasn't been asked. Are you using this primarily for HT or music? If it's HT, you really want a sub that's strong to 20Hz and below. If it's music, it's not so critical. In subs, small has nothing to do with quick, that's a myth. Driver speed has more to do with motor strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitedemo Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 so $ are not as important as performance. Maybe when the house actually does fall down, she'll see the value of a great system. Insurance company here I come! just a thought... http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1330300031&/Krell-MRS anyway id really look at single or dual svs pb13 ultras or dual A7 - 450 from elemental designs or maybe the A7 - 900 http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_41 jl and velodyne are great...but in the price range your looking at there are huge gaps in preformance / $ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake777 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 elite, As much as I even like saying the word Krell, I'm pretty sure I'll never own that one for 12k. It does give one pause for thought though...wouldn't it be nice? I'm still temped by the 15 plus; My affinity for Velodyne peaked during obsessive reading of a UK review that spoke mostly in superlatives. However, judging by the responses to my questions in this thread and Audioholics reviews, it seems like SVS is the way to go. I really only need one new sub as I'm very happy with my Paradigm Sub 12. It has just about the sound I want. The RT12d only sounds best to me when its blasting loud yet strangely it's articulate some of the time and others creates some very unpleasant hollow sounds. With the SVS I'm very much a believer in the potency and depth (which would be very welcome presences) of the Ultra but I'm concerned that it is going to lack the musicality I want. With the help of the very solid Sub 12 the 13 would pound my medium size (25X16X8) room effortlessly if I wanted. My listening/watching is about 50/50 but that music portion is extrememly important and I would be very disappointed to spend and have the result be bloated or bland. I have no real reason to rush this purchase as antsy as I get about it sometimes. Thanks all, Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockOn4Klipsch Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 with that kind of cash i would with out a doubt get 2 PB13 Ultras, they put out some serious SPL and the 13U's sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake777 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 All, I would jump on the SVS PB 13 except for 2 things. In AV Science forum someone wrote "...where it can be beat is how tight and musical it is...". The other problem for me is lack of auto correction (hope I'm wrong on this). N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 In AV Science forum someone wrote "...where it can be beat is how tight and musical it is..." Musicality is unfortunately an entirely personal and subjective aspect of performance. However, in my experience, many issues with musicality can be traced back to errors in setup or room issues. Based on raw measurements, the PB13U gives up very little quality-wise. The other problem for me is lack of auto correction (hope I'm wrong on this). N It doesn't have PEQ, but it does have a parametric EQ. Probably forgoes the expense since most receivers and processors include Audyssey and similar auto-setup systems, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shake777 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 All, It seems as if no one thinks the Velo15+ is the way to go. I think is is much better looking but that's not what this is about. I'd gladly go for the much better sounding/preforming of the two. It won't hurt to save $1200 either. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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