Horn ED

[IndyKlipschFan]

What is that HUGE speaker in the center of your home theatre... Is it an acedemy I have been hearing about, or some other KLipsch speaker???

I have k horns, and I am looking for suggestions for a center/ and sub to keep up with them?

This message has been edited by IndyKlipschFan on 05-20-2002 at 12:29 PM

[Mighty Favog]

That's a KLF-30 turned sideways with a self made motorboard to remount the all the drivers. Neat, isn't it!!

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Tom's Money Pit

[boa12]

yea it's a klf-30hec (horn ed center).

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My Home Systems Page

[IndyKlipschFan]

That is cool... Any suggestions on the center speaker for me? I hear a lot about Academy's... Why this line up?

[boa12]

indy, sorry, which other speaks do u have?

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[IndyKlipschFan]

Klipsch Horns with a KV3 center looking at the fronts....kg 1.5's all the way around for the sides and rear HT set up...

At the time, the KV3 sounded fantastic and not too "colored". It was also finished in light oak which matched my K Horns.

I just hear everyone rant and rave about the Academy and wonder why? I actually would love a Belle... and a sub too.. (To compensate the Belle going even lower?) for the best heritage system combination. Am I right??

[ShapeShifter]

Indy,

I've used my Academy's with Cornwall and presently with Belle Fronts. It does a wonderful job and the match is very good too. I've heard that a single Belle, La Scala, or Heresy is a spot on match. If size is a consideration (is for me), the Academy may work well with the K-Horns too.

Wes

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KLIPSCH IS MUSICf>

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[HornEd]

Sorry, IndyKlipschFan, I was busy adding a final reference note (hopefully) to the surround sound speaker thread.

I have separate systems for HT (which features six KLF-30 Legends and two KLF-C7 Legends). Due for my high concern for "tone & timbre" matching and maintaining full-range potential in a 6.1 system, I use carefully placed monopoles all around. The C7's were designed as Center Speakers but I find them more suited to being Front Effects speakers. The HT system uses a 7' tall stacked pair of SVS Ultras that covers the full-range of bass at Dolby "reference levels" to adequately mirror what is recorded under Dolby standards. In my view, the subwoofer(s) are the second most important speaker consideration in HT.

That makes the Front Center speaker is the most important speaker. And rightly so, for it is called upon to anchor the dialogue, correlate the front soundstage for a wider sweetspot, and is responsible for upwards of 75% of the TOTAL SOUND recorded on a 5.1 DVD! I tried the Klipsch recommended KLF-C7... drifted to the larger excellence of the Academy... and, out of frustration, reconfigured a KLF-30 as a Front Center Channel. It is magnificent and blends the front array into a cohesive soundstage unsurpassed in a Klipsch Legends based system, IMHO.

For what it is worth, I also have Klipschorns in my music room... and I use a Klipsch Belle for a center just as PWK did in his own home. Of course, the LaScala would also be an excellent choice as they are nearly identical and were designed to complement the K-horns. Actually, the Belle was a redesign of the LaScala to meet the WAF (Wife Approval Factor) in PWK's earlier marriage.

Although I use Cornwalls for my Side/Surrounds... the fact that Cornwalls used to be available in a configuration that allowed them one to be laid on its sides as a Center Speaker. Clearly, Cornwalls have a different bass character and seem to round out the Heritage sound better when they are used as Side/Surrounds to provide a rich background for the fully horn-loaded bass of the K-Horns and Belle.

There are folks on this Forum that will suggest the ubiquitous Heresy as an economical/smaller-sized choice for a Front Center. Personally, I think Heresys are better suited to being a three or four speaker rear array in a 6.1 or 7.1 configuration.

Having had the opportunity to test various Klipsch standard and custom centers, it is my considered opinion that only fully horn-loaded Heritages can stay up with the mighty Klipschorn. A little speaker efficiency gap in this regard tends to become a huge difference... at least to my ear.

I may use another decoupled K-horn, perhaps with "false walls" in my next experiment. I am also tempted to build a special Heritage HT Room that is more like a diamond shape to create an acoustics envelopment more like famous concert halls... and yet with a broad enough coverage to include most of the room in the sweetspot.

I hope this helps you on the road to a Center that is truly Klipschorn worthy. -HornED

PS: While I was writing this post, a few others appeared... hence this edit/update. ShapeShifter the Academy is my favorite (non-Heritage) speaker "designed-to-be-a-center" of the Klipsch Classics. My ears tell me it works better with Cornwalls as a center than with Klipschorns... but that is a personal preference. Presently I use my Walnut Oil Academy as a Rear Effects speaker with my Walnut Oil Heritage Music System and it has balanced the Side/Surround Cornwalls quite nicely.

This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-20-2002 at 02:49 PM

[boa12]

indy, yea if you have the room definitely a belle or lascala for center. in my khorn dream sys i'd use an academy for the rear center(s) between the surround corns. though i'll probably convert my current klf-30 mains to rear surround duty.

if it matters & you need something smaller, the academy

does have the advantage of being shielded over the heritage speaks, though one could always shield the heritage themselves.

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[ShapeShifter]

quote:

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Originally posted by HornEd:

I tried the Klipsch recommended KLF-C7... drifted to the larger excellence of the Academy... and, out of frustration, reconfigured a KLF-20 as a Front Center Channel.

---

Ed, I disagree with a portion of your statement. An Academy clearly doesn't begin to qualify for consideration as a candidate for "tone & timbre" matching with the KLF line. I know there or others, who use the C-7 with Heritage Speakers, I too tried, but the differences between the C-7 T&T and Heritage T &T was clearly evident to me. I would consider the deck being stacked against the Academy, when considering its worthiness as a Center with KLF Fronts. IMO, it is clearly not an adequate and accurate candidate for comparison/evaluation with KLF mains.

Wes

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KLIPSCH IS MUSICf>

My Systems f>s>c>

[HornEd]

Thanks for your sharp eyed & eared post, Wes! Actually, there are two misleading areas in the snippet you pointed out. One is that the KLF-20 is a typo and should read KLF-30 (and I have edited the original... thanks for helping me catch the error).

The second misleading area is that I did not give the Academy much of a test for compatibility with the KLF-30 HT system. I bought the Academy after I had built and became ear-accustomed to the KLF-30 Custom Center. And, as your post has helped me recall, I was truly impressed with the Academy as a Center in its own right rather than as a match for the KLF-30's... which, upon reflection, I agree it is not. In fact, it quickly was relegated as a Center for what was then a Cornwall based three channel stereo system in the Music Room.

I wanted to include the Academy as an outstanding center worthwhile but, in my haste and fatigue, did not represent it fairly or correctly. It's nice to know there is a ShapeShifter around to keep us mere mortals on the straight and narrow! Thanks, I needed that! -HornED

This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-20-2002 at 04:44 PM

[ShapeShifter]

Ed,

Thanks for the clarification. I'm very interested in any insight you could share regarding the Academy's performance as a center with K-Horns. Have you tried a comparison with it & your K-Horns? I know hands-down the Belle is the clear winner, but unsure if the Academy is a strong contender.

Mine does work well with the Belle fronts, but it requires a definite plus up in its volume level to get an adequate match across the front array. I'm wondering if it would have to perform near its limit (volume wise) to keep up with K-Horns.

Would appreciate anything you've determined thus far.

Thanks,

Wes

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KLIPSCH IS MUSICf>

My Systems f>s>c>

[HornEd]

ShapeShifter, sorry I missed this post and am late on the answer. Certainly, the Academy has that Heritage character but, personally, I find it too far of a stretch to make a decent Center between K-Horns. The relatively low sensitivity for an Academy (96dB) is even more glaring with the high sensitivity of the K-Horns (104dB)... an 8dB disparity is HUGE and does not bode well for a match.

If one subscribes to the theory (as PWK did) that a center channel should be close to the mains... it is difficult for an Academy with two 8" woofers in a sealed enclosure will stand up to a 15" woofer fully horn loaded!

Also there is a great disparity between the cubic inches in a 33 lb. sealed unit (which helps it be more accurate) and a 167 lb. folded horn loaded speaker that additionally uses 4' of each wall as an integral part of its loading!

For whatever it worth, Wes, I listened to the KHorns with the Academy in the Front Center position and then looked up the specs... as an exercise in trying to describe the disparity my ears sensed.

I have been using the Academy as a Rear Effects Speaker in a 6.1 Heritage configuration. Setting it up with my analog RS SPL meter as a Rear Effects speaker gave me my first clue. Since I use Cornwall I's (98.5dB) as my surrounds, the Academy is only 2.5dB short of the flanking surrounds... and Rear Effects are the least demanding match of a 6.1 system.

The Front Center, though, is IMHO the MOST demanding because of the tone & timbre disparity with the KHorns is most glaring... and if you include HT the fact that upwards of 75% of the total sound is directed to the center channel is a match killer.

In its own right, the Academy is a wonderful speaker that has Heritage character... but with way fewer cubic inches and considerably less sensitivity when stacked against the mighty KHorn. IMHO, asking an Academy to be a little Belle is an unjustified leap of faith. But, answering your question has raised the issue that maybe I should be shopping for three Belles or LaScalas to replace the Cornwalls and Academy in my rear array.

You see, I was using the Cornwalls and Academy as a three speaker stereo (somewhat ala PWK) and was fairly happy with the sound... when I picked up the KHorns and Belle (precisely ala PWK) and relegated the Corwalls/Academy to the rear echelon... and, again, was happy with a three channel stereo that could become an instant multi-channel music provider.

For grins, I slipped in a demanding DVD movie and hooked up a high end 27" TV that was on hand. That's when I discovered what was quite good for multi-channel music had a long way to go to achieve the balance of my upstairs Legend HT... despite the obvious KHorn quality.

In the end, the final straw was comparing the KHorns using a Phantom Channel mode and the KHorns using an Academy as the Center. Wes, it is hard to explain just how awesomely clear that puts a thumbs down on the Academy. It made me sad, because there is so much I like about that scrappy little competitor with a big touch of class.

Sorry the news couldn't have been better... for both of us! -HornED

[ShapeShifter]

HornED,

Many Thanks for that inclusive analysis. I suspected that another K-Horn, Belle or La Scala was the best match. If K-horn do come my way and I use them for HT, I'll need to hang on to the Belles for rear surrounds or front/rear center duty. Other option would be use the K-Horns for 2 channel system and add another Belle or La Scala for center duty, then use 4 Corns for rear/side duty and Academy for rear center. Want to explore some options before I get to that bridge.

Your info is indeed helpful!

Wes

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