arena Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 klipsch claims that only diamond is stronger than the "cerametallic" material they build the midrange drivers out of on their new models. however, it does not seem to be strong enough to survive being shipped via ups. a klipsch rp3 was shipped to me, and it arrived looking like ups had thrown it off the back of the truck. aside from overall cabinet damage, the midrange driver was severly "wrinkled" almost to the point of being cracked, and the pins holding the side-loaded subwoofer in place had been ripped out and the sub had fallen into the speaker. is there anywhere i can pick up a replacement midrange driver? i can probably re-pin the sub in place myself thanks for any help ------------------ two channel old schooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 You should take it back to the dealer for repair and file a claim with UPS. If it was not new, try 1-800-klipsch or a local Klipsch dealer. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 As far as material strength goes, the Aluminum Oxide ceramic on the woofer cone is 9 on Mohs hardness scale. Diamond is 10. Aluminum ranks near the bottom. If the truckers bounce the speaker around enough to damage the cabinet the drivers may suffer too. Mr. Albright has provided the proper contact info to obtain new parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 The Mohs scale is esentially useless as an engineering parameter. Diamond and alumina exhibit very high strength in compression. under tensile loads the strength is described by the Weibull parameter (or modulus) which is the slope of the cumulative probability curve of failure (plotted on a log-log graph) as a funtion of applied tensile load. Materials with high Weibull modulii exhibit near deterministic fracture strength (steel for example), ceramics like alumina exhibit a range of tensile strengths (polycrystalline->very low, single crystal->very high). I would think that as a designer of loudspeakers the only real parameters that make sense are the elastic modulus (determines the speed of sound in the solid) and the density (high density means hard to move quickly, F=M*A). The ratio (density/modulus) defines the specific density. Diamond is vastly superior to alumina when looked at in this analysis. This message has been edited by John Warren on 05-22-2002 at 06:38 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 John, As one who fully understands the diff between, compression, tension and shear modulus as it relates to material strength, it's good to see an engineering viewpoint here. Arena, did Klipsch say that this material was stronger than UPS(Useless Package Service)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 SJ-I'm starting to think that *Abstract Metallurgy* is some sort of course taught in the marketing classes at university. hell...tungsten carbide is also a "9" on the Mohs scale, but at a density 17 grams/cm^3 it's nearly 1.7X denser then lead...certainly won't do much for the woofer transient behavior. (BTW, if my memory serves me Hafnium Carbide is about the same density as lead and will also hit a "10" on the Mohs scale) This message has been edited by John Warren on 05-22-2002 at 06:56 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I can see it all the time on TV. The marketers seem to need the edge. "It's the fastest in it's class", "It's the best at cornering of all 4 wheel drive vehicles with the names starting with S", "The most used widget used by people between the ages of 18 and 42(with 20/20 vision and 2.5 legs, GOD bless that ONE person)". What "class" is that? How many vehicle brands with S are we talking about? Engineering claims are ever more impressive. I think it all started when engineering became a bean counter function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Engineering became a bean-counter function when we started tracking man-hours spent on a Primevera schedule rather than work accomplished and when the nukies succeded in pushing their procedures over on Fossil Power. Now, I have to have a 37 page DCN to issue 8 engineering drawings. If I had one employee per megawatt (2 per for a plant under construction) I could play DCNs all day! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Design Changes? Thank GOD I never had to do a Rev. Z on vellum! Woulda gone Postal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arena Posted May 23, 2002 Author Share Posted May 23, 2002 quote: Originally posted by SOUNDJUNKIE: Arena, did Klipsch say that this material was stronger than UPS(Useless Package Service) no, as far as i know no man-made substance can withstand the extreme forces exerted by ups (i refer to ups as oops) but hopefully klipsch is working on something. my cousin works at ups and the stories he tells me have led me to decide never to ship anything with ups if i can help it. here's my favorite story: a guy he worked with got one of those label guns and a bunch of labels with his girlfriend's address on them, and right before christmas whenever he saw a package that he thought he wanted he just stuck one of his labels with his girlfriend's address over the original address label, and three or four days later he would go pick up the item at his girlfriend's place. he stole dozens of packages that way, and would probably still be doing it if he wasn't so stupid. after 20 or so packages turned up missing in his department, his boss got concerned. they caught the guy when he rode to work on a mountain bike that had gone missing in his department 3 days before. by the way, after filing a damage claim ups only refunded me $400 for the damaged rp3 even though each speaker retails for $750. so i was stuck with one rp3 and only $400 to find a replacement. it took me a while to find someone willing to split up a pair and send me an individual rp3. for a long time i felt like i was stuck with one shoe. ------------------ two channel old schooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 John---Amen brother, when Commonwealth Edison nukies wormed their way into the fossils they brought their notions of QC and paperwork with them. All of a sudden tube work was 100% x-ray, we used to weld 'em, shoot a few random and hydro. Color-coding the welding rod, like I gotta look at the paint on the end to tell low-hi from P5. !?! Then they decided that casing, yes casing, had to be welded with low-hi instead of just zipping it up with 6010. Everything slowed down and quality, which was worker not management driven, didn't improve at all, being it was very good in the first place. Made more money for us Boilermakers outa the Hall though, yes indeed. And the nukes, yikes! I was GF for Bechtel at Zion and Braidwood, Dresden too (the parking lot got crapped-up there) oh I could tell you stories for hours. I like Bechtel though, good outfit, like ABB too. I like these gas-turbine and HRZG jobs now, nice work, CLEAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Tom, I KNEW you weren't a wash pass kinda guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Tom, Being a former nukie (short time), I'm sort of like a reformed smoker about them. We DID need to improve our documentation and control, but we aren't regulation-driven. We're also having a really tough time getting enough boilermakers here in the South. I like the GT jobs, too. It dissapoints me that one of our combined-cycle units just got canceled. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 John---Yeah, supply and demand, lots of Southern Boilermakers are heading up North for the big-money and the Double-Bubble, make hay while the sun shines they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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