SOUNDJUNKIE

dB MAN- I think your goal would be best served by avoiding steel around power/speaker/signal cables. It is highly illogical to think other than aluminum or wood. Live long and prosper.

Glad to hear you found the miswired elements before truly giving up on them. What are you gonna do with the 802's?

<EDIT-DOUBLE POST> This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-24-2002 at 08:55 PM

Danocaster, what did you do to "fix" them?

It is comforting to know as an Orthodox Christian that GOD is on your side too. If I pray hard enough perhaps one day he will take the time to email me as well, or send an instant message, to lend his support in any position I might have to defend here. He is a good and loving GOD. Peace be with you brother.

quote: Originally posted by HDBRbuilder: No, I don't "dance and skirt", I just laugh at you...as do many others...but... I also, in the past week, have written postings explaining how to build and modify speaker cabinets, given historical "insider" info on the company, told a few stories, and answered any questions I could for those who have asked them (some of which were asked directly to me). Just what have you contributed to this forum in that same time-frame? I think we all have seen what your only "contributions" to this forum have been, of late. Have a nice weekend. Excellent work, glad to see testing procedures is not part of your recent dabblings.

It has always been within your purview to put an end to this by having the last word. Meanwhile...you dance and skirt. This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-22-2002 at 08:32 PM

quote: Originally posted by HDBRbuilder: Most forum members would have just edited the previous message, instead of turning an error into a chance to get another "dig" in. I like to own up to my mistakes quickly. I learned to do this from my father as I was a young lad.

Now you take credit for more of nothing, LOL. Good, we'll leave it at that. This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-22-2002 at 03:47 PM

Ed, I fail to see the parallel you attempt to draw with your story and it's relevance to my obtaining the required the proper data via proper testing procedures. I would tend to agree that builder has described a wood studded wall that is superior in CONSTRUCTION to many, if not all, wood studded walls...that is not an issue. I seek good data, the kind that builder himself has expressed a need for through proper testing procedures, that supports his grandiose claim that HIS wood studded false corner wall WORKS better than any wall when used with a K-horn. It is simple to understand. I really don't care to know what PWK had used with PWK's K-horns as we don't know it's construction AND don't know if it measured up better than any other wall...it is irrelevent. I also don't see any need for testimonials as it is not scientific and hearsay. As for embarassing anyone, this should only be embarrassing to one if such a claim is made and can't be supported by the data. There is no shame in producing data. If there is in fact no data...then it is a matter of the emperor has no clothes. No childish insults hurled from this side, simply adult inquiry.

I counted at least 7 redlines, surprised he's still in the running. How many laps is this one?.... This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-21-2002 at 09:10 PM

Kudos to you John...EXCELLENT start to the weekend!

The author appears to be Richard Wang, webmaster of the site. This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-21-2002 at 08:50 PM

Yes Justin, you are correct. I did post the wrong letters . I misspoke so I was wrong. There, I feel better now as an adult. I just wish there were some other adults around.

Yes builder, we've been through the name calling thing with a recently banned member. It is really conduct unbecoming an adult. I am simply taking you to task on a comment you made and wish for further clarification. If you would provide it, we can move on from there.

Again, I really am not asking for supporting documentation on the Klipsch wall, please don't skirt the issue. I also am not interested in what PKW did to test his speakers. I am asking for supporting documentation for your claim of a better wall, which I presume is a better wall than even PKW spec'd out. If you can't support it with proper testing procedures and documentation, then your claim is Bullsh*t right?

Quotes from builder: <<I know alot more than you may think about ALOT of things, too!!...not just assembly of a speaker cabinet!! As for my statements here and there about "white papers", etc...well...anybody who is even the least bit SCIENTIFICALLY INCLINED, knows that blanket statements based on read testing of just one incidence, instead of using a cross-sampling for the evaluations involved in the testing and averaging of the results to achieve a TRULY scientific method, is folly...again, plain and simple!! To believe that the testing of ONE speaker in ONE concrete block wall corner, is truly scientifically valid across the board for ALL concrete block constructed walls...the same for the drywall wall corner...isn't exactly scientific method, is it? I am sure the individual who performed this testing was honest in his results(or I would at least hope so), but to use those results to make a blanket statement is ludicrous at best, and something to consider, before making such a statement!! As for the plywood being more dense than concrete, I never said that at all...I even made a point to say that since the media used for my version of a false corner would be more AKIN to the media used on the k-horn itself in sonic qualities, that it SHOULD be a better performer as the continuance of the outside panels of final outside length of the folded horn in the bass bin...especially since it would have equal or better rigidity in the design I would use to build it!! Try reading what I SAY sometime, instead of READING INTO IT!! As for ridicule of others, I have not done so...I have just stated the truth...and I did recently sit down with an audio engineer and WE DID have a good laugh about some of the extremes(and extreme expense) to which some people go in order to squeeze some little bit of real OR percieved extra performance from the speakers!! That isn't ridicule, that is fact!!..IT HAPPENED!! There is also a tendencey of some to believe everything they read, and then to interpret specific individual results as the gospel for all situations...without paying attention to whether truly scientific cross-section averaging of results was even used...kinda sad, isn't it? My pointing this out may seem like ridicule, but in actuality, I am just POINTING IT OUT!! Nothing I said about differences in concrete block walls or drywall-sheathed walls was Bullsh*t...but was instead based on fact...and anybody who has ever been involved in construction knows this, too!! As for speaker wire...hey...if folks want to pay a fortune for it...more power to them...it is just funny to me...and at least one audio engineer, too!! As for my "lightening up" from now on...it seems like you tend to try and FIND something about me to pick at, instead of just reading what I say, without trying to interpret it into something you WANT it to say...maybe it is YOU who needs to lighten up some, huh?>> No Builder, this is not about putting words in your mouth OR about misconstruing your comments OR an effort to embarrass you OR about picking on you as school children do on the playground...so please don't pretend to be soooo fragile and take the criticism like an adult. This is a forum where ideas and information are shared and we want to believe in everything we read, but as YOU so eloquently put it, we shouldn't... so we should have to PROVE our comments. These are your rules, as stated by YOU many, many times over...all while invoking the memory of PWK. No, this is about inconsistency in your statements and a personal attack that you initiated on someone with seemingly rational comments about proper testing and sampling procedures, and within the same breath, committed the same faux pas to which you claim to be so grossly offended. Was this not an attempt by YOU to RIDICULE them??! If you are going to talk the talk buddy... then walk the walk! Now I know YOU said that you took a sample(read one) of an engineer's position on the merits of all expensive cables and... YOU present it as a blanket statement and thus credibility/scientifically valid to your arguement??? YOU, in response to a graph that YOU say is flawed because it wasn't a representative sample of many walls, make a bold statement that you are able to construct a wall better than ANY drywall, concrete or wood wall and don't show proof of that?? Where is the proper SAMPLING, TESTING and PROOF pertaining to the effectiveness YOUR construction over ALL others while you refute, as YOU make it sound, such an egregious mistake by another forum member? Oh yeah...concrete/block walls differ so dramatically from each other as to negate a 12dB increase at 50Hz over drywall construction? Well... if you're going to say that, you better have at least one test graph to even START that arguement let alone tests and supporting documentation from the multitude of examples for "proper cross sampling for evaluation"! No... builder, these ARE your words. There is no mistake here and no reading into anything you say. It is YOU that misspoke and made a know-it-all jerk out of yourself. It is not I that embarrassed you, YOU did it to yourself and any further attempt at deflection will be transparent. It would be best if you left the testing to the scientifically inclined. Any reply to this http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002168.html ... or not? PS If you really knew what a jerk is then you would know one would say to you,""Well if you know so much about other things then why don't you know "alot" isn't a word?"" This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-20-2002 at 10:20 PM

quote: Originally posted by HDBRbuilder: RE: DJK's blanket statement: "False corners will not be as good as these curves." I GUARANTEE you that I can build false corners that will allow K-horns to outperform ANY studded drywall home corner EVER built!! AND any damned concrete block wall, too!! Making a blanket statement like that about performance with a drywall-sheathed home corner is like saying that a Yugo is the SAME as a BMW 7-series sedan!! There is a world of difference between corners covered with drywall in ANY home...even within the SAME home!! Studded walls of southern yellow pine covered with drywall will have a GENERALLY better performance than those studded with fir, or hemlock, or ANY of the softer conifer woods...all other factors being equal! And it also makes a difference if the studs are on 16 inch centers or the old 24 inch centers. Once you add in the factor of whether construction adhesive, drywall nails, or drywall screws...or any combination of them was used...it makes a world of difference!! AND the thickness and density of the drywall makes a difference too!! Even concrete block types are different from each other!! Then you have to add in the insulation factor, too!! Those measurements given aren't worth the time it took to take them as for performance, because they are too limited and not from a cross-sample average!! I also GUARANTEE you that I can take k-horns to a number of different concrete block wall corners and dry-walled corners and end up with a complete PLETHORA of different test results than those curves shown on that site!! If we are to take stock in "scientific" measurements, let's at least do it in a scientific manner!! GEEZ!! In Europe, and Scandinavia in particular(where these measurements were actually taken), they don't use the same building materials we do here in the USA...lots of difference!! Even in the USA, different materials are used in different areas!! If you do a good job building some false corners, and use the right materials, you will have great performance out of those k-horns!! Nuff said!! Just another example of bullshit measurements as far as I am concerned!! PWK would have loved debating that blanket statement, ESPECIALLY since his OWN k-horns in his own living room are nestled into FALSE CORNERS!! LOL! Sometimes I just laugh my arse off about all of the references given to "white papers" and "testing results" given in this forum...as if any clown who takes the time to post some results he CLAIMS to have will see his results provide ANY REAL insight whatsoever to what a particular performance of a particular speaker in a particular person's listening environment will be to that particular person's particular ears!!...EXCEPT TO HIS OWN!!! Builder...I am intrigued by this wall you are suggesting would be built by you. Would you be so kind as to post any and all relevant test data, or URL's with the data, that support your claim to it's effectiveness as it relates to all concrete and drywall types... so we can make an informed decision?

quote: Originally posted by boa12: is this a nail in the tire parallel? Actually, it might be closer to a "you should never point the front end of a gun towards anybody" thing...unless...

HDBRbuilder, there is no form of satisfaction in doing anything of the sort. IN FACT, your AOL profile is available on the web to any and all AOL users and is public information. I am not the only one able to view it. If you think there is anything there that is hurtful to YOU, then YOU should remove it from your profile. IN FACT, there is a screen that pops up before you enter this info to inform you that it is viewable by any. IN FACT, my email address was available up until last week but removed it when I updated my preferences as it seems private messages and IM is the preferred method of communication here. IN FACT, my AOL profile never contained info...so there would be nothing for to post here, nothing to hide. IN FACT, I have noticed your postings have gradually gone from quaint sharings of your time at Klipsch along with informative building tips to snubbing FACTS and FIGURES others have presented on the BB, even when presented with measured data from credible sources OR when the subject is clearly outside of your area of expertise. You present as FACT, your perception of fact as it suits your "should be" and "shouldn't be" model, and in doing so, lace your postings with arguement based upon alchemy(effectively you are able to make, through excellent construction techniques, the density of plywood = the density of concrete from above), contempt for differing opinions through ridicule(any cable discussion whatsoever comes to mind), rudeness(your SHELL anwser man interpretation of "FACT") in an attempt to force others to see it your way or the highway, disbelief that your "COMMON SENSE" isn't others(if it were COMMON, everyone would know and believe what you do right?) and now... name-calling? Me thinks you are starting to become a 900lb gorilla of sorts. IN FACT, the FACT that you even qualified your sentence with the phrase "pizzing contest" showed me, and I think others, that you were foreshadowing this very conversation and it's outcome through your new found combative nature. You may be able to "pizz" further or higher, and I really can't comment on how far or high up a rope that you can since I really don't know(although I DO think you'll try to tell me how far I can), but that's not really what I'M here for. IN FACT, I am sorry you are somehow troubled by my posting of your AOL profile...so I have removed it, but I am genuinely concerned with MY PERCEPTION of your change in "tone" here recently. I think the BB is having a negative impact on you, just MY FACT. Lighten up and have some fun with it. This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-17-2002 at 08:28 AM

Well, Rockford Fosgate...having bought Hafler some years ago, probably has a good amp in the thing to drive it. Ever heard a Hafler 9500 or 9505???

Sometimes when I mention cable here, I get the feeling someone is waiting to strangle me...with the cable that is. Bi-wiring is probably the most cost effective way to better sound than any other tweak one can buy. Keep them physically separated as mutual inductance will come into play. The fastest way to audio bliss IMHO would be to shorten the speaker cable to a bare minimum and lengthen the interconnect to a pair of mono-blocks. It minimizes the negative effect of speaker cables, increases dynamics and channel separation. One can still bi-wire from there. Keep on truckin'.

I was talking about the breaks in the text. I agree with you on the cable and such.This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-16-2002 at 11:30 PM

EXTREMES...EXTREMES...EXTREMES. DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN EVEN KEEL ANYMORE? This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-16-2002 at 11:07 PM

quote: Originally posted by cluless: Tom ABSOLUTELY...I am proud mother to my own felines, and sister to my mother's cat. The sister thing was really hard to get used to, but since I got christmas presents from her...HEY Then doooo tell which kitty litter YOU prefer, I just don't believe all the commercials. It's nice to see she had a little extra scratch to get you something!