Rhetor Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Before I moved my speakers all into place, I am going 11.1 . . . Trying to incorporate Klipschorns, La Scalas, and Heresys. Using themK-horns for mains, but am only guessing with the LaScalas and Heresys. So, critique away! Denon 4311 AVR Fronts: 1979 klipschorns Wide Front: 1976 La Scalas Front Heights: 1984 (1.5) Heresys Center: RC62 Side Surrounds: RS52s Rear Surrounds: RF82s Subwoofer: Martin Logan Depthi ) Here are other Klipsch vintage speakers I own which could be used instead. What does not go into the 11.1 setup listed,above, will be moved to an office 7.1 setup AVR: Pioneer SVX-94THX KG4s (oak) KG4s (walnut) KG2s RB61s Bozak B201 Tempos (walnut 3-ways) Subwoofer: Klipsch KW12 Ideas? Am I on the right track? Is something missing? I would like to get help soon in deciding . . . Don't want to reset it all twice! Thanks to you all in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Holy crap! How big is this space? I would have the LaScala at center to the Khorns for sure if there's room. The Heresy's would be good for front heights. Honestly not sure about why you would want front wides and heights, unless the space is huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Good sized space . . . This is more of "because the Denon 4311 allows me to" . . . It does 7.1 and will allow me either to add two more 2 zones, or do 11 channel. I have no desire for multi zone. I have enough speakers, so, decided to use all of the speakers and one of them 11.1, one HT and one home office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 IMO, you'd be in the top few percent of ALL options for home theater! I love my RS62's, they can keep up with the big horns. Not sure about the choice of RS52's. Your choice of sub is going to have the largest impact on that system. It takes alot of sub to run with the Khorns and LaScala. By your choices, I assume the room is larger than most (mine is 18x33'x9.5'). Room volume can suck the energy right out of subwoofers. My pair are about the size of a Volkswagon, but it really isn't overkill for the room volume and to match with the big Klipsch. So start thinking of subs with more output. I tried 9.2, but honestly didn't feel hieghts offerend much. Let's face it, the Khorns and LaScala can send out a fairly large wall of sound without any suppliments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHF63 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Just thoughts. If the room is really large enough to justify all those Heritage horns (something like 20 x 35 or bigger), then I agree with tragusa3 that you probably need more sub. Personally I think there's a lot more value in the side surround and rear surround positions than in the front height or front wide positions, so I'd put my Heritage stuff in those locations. K-Horns as front mains, LaScalas for rear surround, Heresys for side surround. Maybe try the Heresys for center and RF-82s for side surround. Really, you need to score one more LS or Heresy for your center channel. Then you can have all Heritage for the "first seven". Once you have your 7.1 sounding good, then play with the RS-52s and see how you like them as front height. I get the "my receiver can do it" idea, but really if you have K-Horns in the front corners anyway, why bother at all with front wide channels? If you just gotta do it, then I think you'll have to move the LaScalas to front mains and leave the K-Horns for front wides (which seems to me to waste the K-Horns, but hey, how many people can even think about that as an option?). If you do that, you owe the forum a pic of 2 LS and 2 KHorns fronting your HT. Just sayin... Have fun with it. Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 IMO, you'd be in the top few percent of ALL options for home theater! I love my RS62's, they can keep up with the big horns. Not sure about the choice of RS52's. Your choice of sub is going to have the largest impact on that system. It takes alot of sub to run with the Khorns and LaScala. By your choices, I assume the room is larger than most (mine is 18x33'x9.5'). Room volume can suck the energy right out of subwoofers. My pair are about the size of a Volkswagon, but it really isn't overkill for the room volume and to match with the big Klipsch. So start thinking of subs with more output. I tried 9.2, but honestly didn't feel hieghts offerend much. Let's face it, the Khorns and LaScala can send out a fairly large wall of sound without any suppliments. The sub runs three 8 in powered woofers in it . . . It really is sufficient . . . More than enough for me, too much for my wife. The Martin Logan Depth i performs so well I have had to keep it down to literally keep from shaking the house. And a good sub is about feeling the bass . . . Feels like a vibrating chair now! I have only had the La Scalas for a couple of weeks and the K-horns for a week . . . Mostly unplugged waiting for Crites C125 in the La Scalas (now in) and cap replacements for the crossovers in both . . . Done last night. So, this evening going to start plugging stuff in for real for the first time . . . The reason for my question is that all of the Heritage stuff has been bought, tested, and now, as of last night, upgraded. I only listened to any of it for a few minutes individually, just long enough to identify problems . . . One tweeter blown on a La Scala, and muddy sound out of the other--crossover caps. The K-horns were disappointingly underwhelming, but functional . . . And I could see 33 year old leaky caps, so the needed replacement . . Putting the reworked crossovers back in tonight and starting the plug up. May wind up using one Heresy for a center in each setup. I know it is almost a waste to put the La Scalas as front wides, but they really do look amazing . . . I might. Leave them in the frot and just set them up on a two channel and the smaller Klipsch sub for music only--don't want to put them in the little used office. Again, outing the La Scalas as rears would not really use them effectively, would it? Rears are just some basic action sounds, right! Yeah, I know it all sounds like overkill, but the kids are through college and we are empty-nesters . . . We do staycations instead of expensive vacations to Disney-world. Our home is our retreat center and preferred vacation destination . . . We like our rented movies over ever going to a movie theater and love our music of many genres. So, yeah, this is our ne area of overkill. And, when I started looking for heritage Klipsch stuff the last coule of months, well, just found some amazing killer deals and had some time to drive. Just in that sweet spot between raising kids and really thinking about putting a decade on retirement. And . . . I could not stop myself when I found a killer deal within driving distance for the truck and trailer. This started off a the purchase of a couple of working black KG2s . . . Then a pair of KG4s . . . Then, well . . The rest is a list I am trying to relocate in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 If you are new to the big horns and have only heard them individually, then honestly, you haven't experienced what they are capable of in a theater environment! I only mention more sub assuming you wanted it to match the capabilities of the rest of that system. That Klipsch sub can not. Which may work for your taste, but it's not well matched. Can you share your room size? I say 10:1 that you won't appreciate the addition of wides or heights. But maybe you have just the right layout to take advantage of it? Khorns at the top of there game WILL NOT need supliment. There will also be a fairly large difference in using a LS vs. a Heresy at the center position. It's the most important speaker in the group (for theater) and I'd go to considerable effort to use the LS there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 If you are new to the big horns and have only heard them individually, then honestly, you haven't experienced what they are capable of in a theater environment! I only mention more sub assuming you wanted it to match the capabilities of the rest of that system. That Klipsch sub can not. Which may work for your taste, but it's not well matched. Can you share your room size? I say 10:1 that you won't appreciate the addition of wides or heights. But maybe you have just the right layout to take advantage of it? Khorns at the top of there game WILL NOT need supliment. There will also be a fairly large difference in using a LS vs. a Heresy at the center position. It's the most important speaker in the group (for theater) and I'd go to considerable effort to use the LS there. I am definitely new to the big horns . . . Only listened to them long enough to diagnose the problems . Even then, the problems made any listening disappointing, but enough to make sure the woofers, mods, and tweeters were functional . . . But the 33 year old caps were worn out and physically leaking. I am looking forward to getting the crossovers back in now that the new caps are on and riding the listening post tonight. My room is about 25 feet wide by 30 feet long . . . All wood, with an nine foot high wood ceiling . . . The back wall is wood enclosed staircase (up the center of the house, save for two open ends (no doors on that back wall . . . Just walk through). Actually, very lively, but do not need sound deadening . . . Just right for HT. It is a log cabin and th house shakes when I crank up the Marting Logan sub . . . With the three 8 inch internal, balanced and synchronized woofers in the sub, it is an experience that literally shakes the house. The first time I cracked the sub up . . . We had to scramble to get away from the falling dust chuckles between the wood slats in the ceiling! We had only lived in the 25 year old house for a little while when I tried it. Had some leaking caps in the K-horns, so I am anxious to get the crossover I put the sonic caps from the Crites' back in and hook up in the two excellent corner. I do have to put the pipe foam on the back to deal them a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Excited for you! When you get them all freshened up, your jaw will be hanging on the floor! Post some photos sometime when you get it together and presentable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Excited for you! When you get them all freshened up, your jaw will be hanging on the floor! Post some photos sometime when you get it together and presentable. I hope so . . . Was a 10 hour round trip with an additional 3 hours delay because of a mud slide! My wife and I loaded them ourselves, etc, etc, quite an adventure . . . Then getting them into the house . . . ourselves was another adventure . . . . Then, learning to install new caps . . Destroying two new Sonic caps in the process . . . They better sound great! Ha! Ha! When I auditioned them, the guy was using them as rear surrounds because he did not have any other corners. His dad bought them new in 1979 and gave them to his son when he down-sized. The son only had room for the K-horns as rear surrounds. So, I did not hear much from them when I auditioned them. I had to wait a week to go back with cash and hope they were still available the day I could go get them . . . We got home at 3 AM and of course left them overnight in the enclosed trailer. My wife agreed to let me buy them . . . Sight unseen. She had never even seen a pic of K-horns . . . I was on a trip . . . She hit the bank, had a neighbor help her hook up the trainers to th pick-up, drove five hours with our two dogs one way . . . Waited on me to get there three hours late from the mudslide, saw them . . . He had already unhooked them . . . She helped me disabble the tophats and grills, helped load . . . Then followed me home, arriving at 3 am. The next day, we disassembled the living room to get them in. Had a fiend who knows speakers come over to listen on Sunday night . . . We diagnosed a cap problem. Called thir family Crites on Monday AM and put the new caps in last night. So, neither of us have heard the K-horns before except for a few minutes with bad caps. Even our La Scalas with bad caps after putting the new C125 tweeters in . . . Tested again, one sounded great, the other like it had a blanket on it but the tweeter worked fine with the new one in it. So, we are excited to get the recapped crossovers in and give both the La Scalas and the K-horns a real audition! So, with all of the work in them already, I am sure hoping they are as amazing as everyone claims, and I expect and hope we are both blown away. The best speakers I have had to date are the Klipsch RF82s I bought four years ago and have been using as my fronts, with an RC62 center, RS52 surrounds, and RB61s in back . . . We have absolutely loved those smaller speakers in a 7.1 setup. Hoping we love the K-horns, La Scalas, Heresys, KG4s even more . . . The little KG2s are ugly, so they went into my basement shop . . . Too ugly for the house . . . Scuffed up black paint (though I think they started life as walnut--no stickers on th back anymore). So, since we love our RF82s and even our little KG2s, I am hoping a real Heritage setup with K-horns and La Scalas and Heresys--repaired and refreshed will blow us away. I will take some picks after it is all set up. Thanks for the encouragement and help. I am new to buying vintage speakers, freshening and repairing them, and then matching them up. Only been at it for a little over a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Be sure you check the Denon re: the B-zone. I have a Pioneer VSX-49TXi and when the A & B zones are selected, only the mains in the A zone will play, not the others in A zone. Just something to check out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Be sure you check the Denon re: the B-zone. I have a Pioneer VSX-49TXi and when the A & B zones are selected, only the mains in the A zone will play, not the others in A zone. Just something to check out.I Yeah, same thing on a Pio I have . . . But on the Denon 4311 can use the extra four channels, each on two other zones, can be used with the 7.1 to make 11.1 or 11.2. Thanks for heads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Excited for you! When you get them all freshened up, your jaw will be hanging on the floor! Post some photos sometime when you get it together and presentable. Finally the freshly recapped crossovers in and the speakers hooked up (don't have the bass bins sealed yet with foam pipe covers), but . . . How do the K-horns sound? . . . . . AMAZING!!!! Wow!!! I have never heard an equally amazing speaker! And, I can tell that after I get the bass bins sealed and back against the wall, I doubt I am going to need the sub on when listening to smile two channel! I can't wait to hear them in the HT setup! I sincerely believed it could not get better than my La Scalas for drones, but was I wrong! I have been listening for four years using RF82s for fronts and two channel music. I have been very satisfied with the RF82s . . . Great speakers for HT and two channel. But after harking the K-horns today, the RF82s are moving to the back of the bus and are going to become my rear back surrounds! K-horns = amazing . . . And until today . . . I did not even know it! But there will always be a place in my heart for my first biog Klipsch speakers, the RF82s. But, the refreshed K-horns . . . Wow! And, hearing before and after with old oil can caps (that were still working and not too far out of spec), the sound post cap refresh . . . Amazing. Glad I pfiished a recap of the new old La Scalas too.s. Now, the stuff arrived for the Heresys . . . I don't think they need caps, but they are getting them anyway! Did I tell you those K-horns sound amazing!!!! My jaw did nit the floor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Worth every penny paid and all of the time 7 hour roux trip that turned into 10) and trouble and trailers and gas and lifting and well, you all have done the same thing. getting them, and learning to solder, and recapping the crossovers and new washers in the mid driver and horn . . . And the cleanup. I would have bought these '79 K-horns new in 1979 if I had know the sound would have bee, well, so amazing!! Next? Putting the refreshed crossovers back into the La Scalas. Then foam pipe around the K-horn bass bins. Then Watco Danish Oil in neutral and 0000 steel wool to rub off some paint scuffs from somebody's walls, and then oil the very, very dry veneer on the K-horns! Then take the K-horns to a local cabinet maker here who repair the few veneer chips missing. Pics tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I think you'd get a far better system eliminating such a monstrous mish-mash of miss-matched speakers and have a competent home theater engineer design you an engineered system that addresses all the problems associated with multiple speaker systems and room interactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 I think you'd get a far better system eliminating such a monstrous mish-mash of miss-matched speakers and have a competent home theater engineer design you an engineered system that addresses all the problems associated with multiple speaker systems and room interactions. You know, that is sincerely great advice . . . But . . . For me, this is a new hobby, not a destination. I am so greatly enjoying collecting vintage and repairing my own vintage finds, and then figuring out with forum community interaction what might work and what might not. For me the hobby and learning is my destination. If my destination were "ultimate home HT" I would definitely hire a pro, buy new, and let them install. But doing it collecting, repairing, and changing setups is my destination. But you give great advice, the same as I would if ultimate HT was third goal. Sincerely, thanks for the advice. Someone with a different goal than mine should definitely avoid this thread! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 Now that the K-horns and La Scalas have the refreshed crossovers in and the La Scalas also have the new Crites CT125s installed, they both sound amazing. Funny, almost equal bass sound coming out of the bass bins. I know that is probably because I have not used the foam pipe wrap to seal the K-horns to the corners yes...the corners are log cabin logs, so virtually no seal . . . Home depot here I come. Before the caps refresh on the La Scalas, when I heard them, I heard very little bass . . . They sounded, bass wise, like my Heresys (which of course have very little bass because of the small cabinet. But after new caps, I am presently surprised by the bass coming out od the La Scalas.....I can see why they are a favorite for the two channel enthusiast. Well, on the Denon 4311, the La Scalas just do not sound good as wide fronts . . . So, it looks like they are going to move to side surrounds (move out RS52s), because I listen to a lot of multi channel stero--all the speakers wak up then. Anytime I just want two channel for music, can just hit the "pure direct" button on the AVR. Now it looks like then the RF82s will become the rear channel, then the RB61s will be the wide fronts and the RS52s will be the front heights for when I want to go 11.1, and keeping the RC62 as the center channel....we will see how that sounds with K-horns fronting and La Scalas as rear surrounds. Just hate to split up the Heresys just to make center channels. Have the Martin Logan Depth I for the sub...sounds great complimenting the K-horns and La Scala bass. For the music in the office then on my old Pio 94TXH AVR putting Heresys in as fronts (with risers). I have me nice peak KG2.2 I will use for a center (even though I know it is not a true center.). For side and back surrounds, I have a nice walnut pair and another nice oak pair of KG4s. So, to the basement shop, the first pair of vimtage speakers I bought and of absolutely marvelous sounding after new caps black painted KG2s and my Bozak Tempos. So, that is where I am . . . Until I find a great pair at a great buy of Belles . . . The search that started this whole mess! I still have not managed to find the right Belles at a great place and get them close enough to actually buy! They will be the fronts for my home office, if I ever capture that ghost! Thanks for the help, everybody. I love this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sounds like you are truly enjoying the experience! Congrats on the new system.. Your wife is a trooper for sure! I tend to agree about not using wides or front high speakers with the k-horns. Those speakers use the corner as part of the horn path, and any speaker you put near them will interfere with that horn path. I also still think you should be using the LaScala as a center. If you could find a single split LaScala, you could use the base under the TV screen, and the tophat over the screen. The LaScala can keep up with the Khorns much better. Droid is giving sage advice here. You have all of the equipment, save one LaScala, for a pro to work with. I have had a pro come through my setup, and listened to what he had to say. He effected my final setup, but only by about 20%. The rest was my baby. There is nothing wrong with inviting an expert over. He has some tools, and can really help you grow what you know. The sub you have must be exceptional. In a room that size, typically people use way more than three 8 inchers. Trag has a couple Danleys, which would be the equivenant of about 20 of them. I looked at the website just now, and those little babies get some great reveiws. They remind me of the Paradigm sub1 and sub2, only a lot smaller. It is definitely leading edge technology! You should hop over the the Powered Sub forum and give a review. I think they might be a fit for many, as they definitely would pass the WAF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizop Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Once you have your 7.1 sounding good, then play with the RS-52s and see how you like them as front height. I'd keep them at the back or on the sides. the RS speakers are designed for surround placement (hence the S) and dispurse the sound a lot from side to side. you want to stick with speakers in front that push all the sound straight out. your RF-82's are made to go in front and I'd keep them there. I can't comment on which of the other speakers to use where as I have no personal experience with models that good. I've got 9.1 in one room and I really like it. while they talk about the benefit of the extra speakers for movies, I find it really enhances everyday TV sound. most content is 5.1 and so the rear surrounds really don't get much work while the extra speakers up front are in contstant use as my Yamaha receiver somehow divides the front sound. my receiver is technically only 7.1 and the front highs are what Yamaha calls presence speakers meaning there isn't truly a separate amplifier powering them so maybe it isn't right to call it a 9.1 system but I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHF63 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 the RS speakers are designed for surround placement (hence the S) Doh! You're right. I completely screwed that up. No RS speakers up front, even on the derived channels. Sorry about that. Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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