Help with La Scalas, no bass

[skeeter99]

So I just went on a trek this weekend from Portland to Redding, CA and picked up a really nice looking set of La Scalas. I've got them hooked up to my Onkyo 805. I've had LOTS of speakers hooked up to this amp including many 4ohm and up speakers. I'm having an issue though and don't know if it may possibly be a crossover issue or amp issue but I'm getting barely any bass at all. Of course I checked polarity and double checked and checked again as reversed polarity would obviously cancel out the bass and the polarity is correct. I realize these won't go super low but I've heard others and the bass they did have absolutely slammed. Listened to some dub step and that was what turned me really on to these speakers. I'm really disappointed with what I'm hearing bass wise. The mids and highs are fine and imaging nicely it's just the lack of bass that's driving me bonkers. I double checked the wiring going from the terminals to the bass bins and it's all correct as well. I even opened up one of the bins last night just to make sure they were right and they were, don't think they'd ever been opened. I need help so any tips/advice would be great!

Scott

[skeeter99]

Here's a bad pic of the setup for reference:

Scott

[skeeter99]

And yes they are La Scalas, they just have full factory grills

[DrWho]

I don't think the lascala would be my speaker of choice for listening to dubstep.....

Are those subs in your corner? How is all that configured?

[skeeter99]

I don't listen to dub step, I just heard them with dub step once and while they didn't hit the lowest notes, what they did do was really hard hittin and heavy.

Yes they are subs in the corner, MFW-15's but for music I run the mains full range though the direct or pure audio function on the receiver which doesn't engage the crossovers.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Disregard...late post.

[CECAA850]

Is this the first set of Lascalas you've ever heard?

EDIT, were these the same speakers you heard and liked or was it another pair?

[skeeter99]

These are not the first ones I've heard and are not the same ones I heard either. I pulled them into the room a bit last night and it seemed to help, I'm wondering if the way the horn is loading the bass is somehow being cancelled out in a different way than a standard front ported speaker would load the bass. Maybe the fireplace is causing a null and the bass is getting cancelled that way? I'm going to pull the speakers out further tonight just to give it a try and see how they do. Maybe the room is the biggest issue.

[CECAA850]

I would think that if the room was the issue, you'd have had the same lack of bass with prior speakers in the same location (ported or horn loaded).

[skeeter99]

I thought that too which is why it made me wonder. I just don't know if possibly the way the wave comes out of the horn is different than how it comes out from a standard port and its that difference that's possibly causing this. Just me thinking out loud.

[Chris A]

I pulled them into the room a bit last night and it seemed to help.

This is an interesting comment, since pulling the La Scalas into the room should actually kill lf response.

1) I'd start by powering one speaker only, then add the second speaker (without subs, please). The bass response should increase noticeably.

2) Then I'd listen in mono (both La Scala channels at the same time) to see if the stereo image is exactly centered all the way up and down. If you hear anything that sounds like stereo or strange imaging, then that might be a clue.

3) If you're still having trouble, I'd replace one of your older front speakers on the left channel and listen. Then swap your old front speaker with the right speaker. Listen for lf response. If, after equalizing for equal loudness (...which may be a considerable difference in amplifier gain...), you get a lot more bass out of your older fronts, then you have another clue.

4) Remember to recalibrate your subs (i.e., distance from listener) using your Onkyo Receiver HT setup function - the "distance" needed to calibrate using La Scalas will be a few feet more.

A stock La Scala starts to lose bass response at about 100 Hz or higher if they are not in full corners. Putting something on the outside of the right La Scala that looks like a bookcase but is aligned 90 degrees to the front wall and touches the outside of your right channel La Scala may increase bass response noticeably.

Chris

[Quiet_Hollow]

If you can't get your speakers seperated by more than 8 feet apart, then they're going to cancel one another out at least some point in the bass region.

In addition, I'd second the wager that flanking the hearth isn't helping things acoustically. [Y]

[skeeter99]

It's gonna be tough to get more than 8' at this house. I have a feeling I may just be getting some major cancellation :-(

Scott

[Quiet_Hollow]

I hear ya there. [:S]

[Guest " "]

I thought that too which is why it made me wonder. I just don't know if possibly the way the wave comes out of the horn is different than how it comes out from a standard port and its that difference that's possibly causing this. Just me thinking out loud.

With a 4 watt tube amp, at 22 ft, the sound on LaScala's I've owned was full, robust, and dynamic. Your room would make a great Heresy or Cornwall layout. If the wall in your pic is the long wall of the room, you really do not have much to work with.

[skeeter99]

So if I understand it right the Cornwalls have better bass extension but the La Scala's have better mids an highs? I confirmed my suspicion by pulling my speakers all the way into the room and the bass is there in spades! Speakers are fine, receiver is fine, now I have to figure out a way to overcome what my room is doing to my response curve :-(

Scott

[guitarman]

Some very good advice in here. My La Scalas have very little low bass. They are not in corners. But I already knew this. If I run my Denon in Direct mode (sans subs and crossovers), the bass disappears. Mid bass (100-250Hz) kicks at louder volumes though. Audyssey and the subs make all the difference. I have an 805 too (in the living room powering a 5.1 setup) and I know it has enough power. Good luck.

A pic of my setup.

[skeeter99]

Very nice looking setup! Sounds like these guys may be very room dependent. I think for HT in the current positions they'd be fine but I'm not looking for fine, I'm looking for exceptional which is why I'm trying to figure this out. With my subs and these both going for movies bass impact should be incredible. Just need to find out how to get these all the way there :-)

[Marvel]

Scott,

Just what size is your room? I have my LS in a 13x 20 or so room. Speakers are on the short wall. Before I stuck a TV in betwen them, I had them pulled away from the side walls with only 4 feet between them, Bass was great and imaging exceptional.

I did a couple of things to mine. First, since I use low powered SET amps (3.5 watts per side), I put in fairly low parts count crossovers with low order slopes. I don't usually listen at high volumes, so these work well for me. I also adjusted the crossovers to drop the output of the mid horn/drivers. The mids had seemed too hot for my tastes. This helped the overall tonal balance, and allows the gain to be cranked a bit more, giving a bit more bass without havining the midrange buzzsaw effect.

If you want to adjust your midrange settings, I think Speakerfritz can tell you the changes required.

Bruce

[skeeter99]

My room is about 35-40' long and about 16' deep or so. Its a long narrow townhouse and the speakers are at the far end of one of the walls.

I'll look into redoing the crossover but that does make me a bit nervous. Recapping and redoing the crossover with better parts makes sense but a redesign makes me a bit nervous. Are there published frequency result plots from the refinish?

Thanks!

Scott