anarchist Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Ok guys, Some of you know I have been battling with the issue of moving into tubes. I had pretty much decided to get the Ella (still may) when the Joplin (also very nice) kept getting suggested. Not having a clue, this has caused me a great deal of anxiety as I have no idea the benefits/pitfalls (audible) of various circuits. So...I see a couple of Eico HF-81's that I may be able to get cheaply. I am thinking Kelly raves about these amps - get one, get my feet wet, and maybe learn something about these tubes and make an informed decision on the DIY kits. I don't particularly like the looks but I would get to hear tubes (hopefully) and at least know if the sound was appealing to me. It would also let me see exactly what low watts could do and ease my mind. Thoughts anyone? Am I thinking too damn much about this? How bad would it suck if the damn things didn't work and I don't know squat about repairing one? I need some guidance from you gurus out there. Much more of this and I will be thinking about grabbing the Wave8's just to hear before committing substantial funds into this little venture. I really don't want my first listen to tubes be something that is a poor representation and be soured on tubes because of it. Show me the love and get me on track here. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 The HF-81 can be a sweet sounding amp. I have now heard one in good working order (Tim's). The thing to watch out for or be aware of is that they are all kits and how its going to sound greatly depends on the skill of the original builder. Its basically a scrap shoot that you almost can't loose. If it doesn't work well and you don't feel up to fixing it there easy to get rid of and get your money back. Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 06-03-2002 at 02:08 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Ditto on what NOS says here. We have had massive debate on the EICO/Vintage amp issue here, sometimes getting too heated. WE all agree that the vintage road, though a mine field at times, can be a GREAT and extremely rewarding path. But many of these pieces (though not all) were kits and the ability and soldering skill of the builder really do play into the picture. Despite that, I have found the circuit and the transformers of the lowly looking EICO to be WAY above average - actually, rivaling top notch iron. Size is not an indication of quality here. The little EICO transformers are amazingly open, detailed, extended, as well as sweet sounding. I think this, along with the all triode front end and dual tube rectification, counts for a good portion of the sonics and magic here. Surely, looking at the wiring will leave many cold. Yet I find the EICO does wonders DESPITE this. I have amplifiers that are laid out like a swiss watch sound far less musical with less ability to do the audiphile dance as well (whatever that's worth). In many ways, the EICO is what made me question the importance of parts (although I still think they are very important - but a good design and outputs comes in FIRST by a large margin when dealing with tube gear). Basically, these vintage pieces, especially the EICO HF-81, have the potential to outshine modern PP tube amplifiers that cost far more. Personally, I believe a fully functioning EICO can sound more musical and more sonically pleasing than the Consonance PP EL-34/KT-88 amp. As for the Joplin, I am not sure. In some ways, the Joplin will be a different animal all together as the 2A3 tube is a true Triode tube. But I think the EICO just might be a more musical beast on the whole. I will find out a lot more in the next few weeks as a Joplin was just mailed to me. IT will be my first Consonance product. Several members of this forum alone have replaced BIG name, highly touted and reviewed EL-34/KT-88 amps with the EL-84 based EICO. The first amp was the CARY/AES Super Amp wired in Triode mode. This amp has received accolades across the board and has some pretty potent custom output iron and a nifty input/driver circuit that is unique. The second was the Conrad Johnson CAV-50 EL-34 piece, a unit that comes in over $2500 and has received positive comments. Both of these amps lost out to the little EICO via vintage Klipsch speakers (Klipschorns and Cornwalls). Both of the owners realized that the EICO brought the playback chain to a higher level. Now, the trick is getting a good vintage amp, just as NOS440 said. You have to do a bit of research and be an astute Want ad and EBAY user. Even so, there is the ability to be HAD. Still, the chance, considering the cost, is a worthwhile one to take, especially if you have some knowledge (or are willing to learn) of electronics. As for the ASL Wave 8, I personally would opt for another solution. These amps are great for the price but are surely not in the same league as better tube gear. I think the stock fully functioning HF-81, would really show the WAVE 8 as the more pedestrian device. The output transformers are not even remotely in the same class. Perhaps you can wait a bit here as I will have the Joplin for audition and photos very soon. I will finally get to see how well these amps perform compared to other standards. kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1356527037&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 the DIY consonace is made by OPERA, the top tube producer of China, not a real "DIY" tube. http://www.operaudio.com.cn/company/operaudio/ed/m500s.htm so you can have more confidence on its quality. not really listen to it. but it is said it's very clear and nutural. maybe it is competent at this price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Yes, all the Consonance tube kits are derivatives of the Opera Audio gear. There are some differences internally as well as in the chassis as the Opera factory built versions are not powder coated. The BIG difference is that ye olde Opera Audio M500 costs in the 3000 range and is not customizable. The Billie 300B kits have many options and upgrades. The same holds true with the other Consonance kits; they all have built versions, though at a much higher cost. Ole Crash is not looking at the Billie 300B/2A3 kit. Yet if you were looking into doing a kit, this is the EASIEST kit to make as it has the least amount of parts and the most room. It is also the most dramatically different sonic picture from what you are used to... I think the Consonance Billie, whether in 2A3 or 300B form, is probably the best Consonance kit based on the classic circuit. But you must have speakers that work well with this application. I have more of a handle and know a bit more when I listen to the PP 2A3 Joplin (which will come in around the same power as the EICO). The Billies wont arrive till later. kh ps-For those new here, I should mention that I do the web work for DIYCable, the US distributor of Consonance Tube Kits - this is how I am getting the units to audition as they are coming for pictures. Regardless, I will attempt to give an unbiased opinion on the sonics, despite this loose connection (sic). This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 06-04-2002 at 08:30 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Wow, mobil, u r so knowledgable! quote: is probably the best Consonance kit based on the classic circuit. But you must have speakers that work well with this application. how about RB-5 working with it? maybe 9W is a little bit low for RB-5 impeduence curve (drop to 3om), so considerating the consonance paralell 300B R 5.5 www.operaudio.com.cn/company/operaudio/ed/R5.5.htm no chance to listen to them. any advice? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 4, 2002 Author Share Posted June 4, 2002 Aw hell, I couldn't take it anymore. The Heresies are sitting here begging to be played and this amplifier thing was killing me. Tossed and turned. Reviewed the Joplin and Ella specs again; jumped on Ebay and bought a Eico HF-81 based on the above posts. Maybe I will get lucky and it sounds fantastic - I could then keep it or clean it up and stick it on Ebay with a better description and fetch more money. Then I can get the pretty Ella or Joplin based on Kelly's review. Of course, if I am not lucky, I am heading to North Carolina on a manhunt. Christ, I hope this thing really works as it basically was done spontaneously and without any contact with the seller. So tell me, fellas, what do I need to do when it arrives? What checks? What tools? What the hell will I be looking at? ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 5, 2002 Author Share Posted June 5, 2002 Bump for a little help on what to do when it arrives. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 see Wright Sound Phono stage thread... You sure did buy this beast whithout a lot of research and communication with the seller. These days, this is a sure fire way for disappointment. Hope it works out. The last few purchases I have recommended have been from owners that knew their stuff and had experience with tubes. These things are bringing more ducats and they are starting to come out of the woodwork, not all peachy, either. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 06-05-2002 at 11:22 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 crash827 Post a link to the one you bought so we can look it over Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 5, 2002 Author Share Posted June 5, 2002 Hi Craig, Not much to look at or make a decision on here: Hope it works I did say it was a rather spontaneous moment. As soon as I get it, I will post pics inside and out. Hopefully I will be able to post them AND exclaim it works. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Looks to be a pretty clean unit ... a little Brasso and some black/gold spray paint will clean up the outside. Hopefully there are some Mullards in there and all the iron's intact. Good luck! ------------------ "Bullsh*t!" -PWK- --------------------- TWO-CHANNEL SYSTEM Eico HF-81 Eico HFT-90 AES AE-25 "Superamp" (in temporary retirement) AES AE-3 Pre-amp (in temporary retirement) New Tube 4000 CD Player 1976 Klipschorns (KCBR's & ALK'ed) HOME THEATER Klipsch 1968 ALK Cornwall "II"s (LF/RF) ALK Belle Klipsch (Center) Klipsch Heresy (RR/LR) Klipsch KSW-12 sub Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Cornwalls) Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Heresy's) Denon AVR-4800 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Crash Well I was watching that auction the lack of Imformation made me steer clear. We will all be rooting for you. Never know you may have pick up a jewel. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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