Cartridge/Turntable questions

[lotusmark]

I've recently dug out my old turntable and vinyl and realize what a difference there is between different formats. My old tt is a nondescript Technics, but.... my favorite wife blessed the purchase of a used VPI Scoutmaster with a Grado Gold cartridge for Xmas. (She's a keeper!) I'm using a Cambridge Audio 640p with my Peach for tt applications. Anyway my question is this: Is there a discernable difference between mm and mc cartridges in the $500 range.

[joshnich]

I have mostly preferred moving coil carts. To my ears they deliver greater detail and dynamics. I think the greater question however is what 500 dollar cart matches well with your tonearm. I do not know a lot about vpi tone arms which I am assuming your tt is fitted with so I couldn't give you an informed opinion on what matches well. There are some great sites that can help with the question. Both vinyl engine and the analogue dept have on line tools that can help you with your choices.

Josh

[LarryC]

I agree with Joshnich about detail and dynamics, but would note that an LOMC's lower output usually requires boosting its output. This can involve adding phono transformers or more electronics. Otherwise, the signal will be too low, and phono stage noise can interfere with the music.

While a high-output MC cart might produce a sufficiently higher output, they tend to have a more opaque sound and less livliness than an LOMC. A good moving magnet is very satisfactory for many people.

I suggest you also discuss this with a telephone consultant/salesperson at Needle Doctor: http://www.needledoctor.com/Contact

[joshnich]

Hello Larry

I took a quick look at the Cambridge 640p specs and it looks as if it can handle Lomc carts. If I were in his shoes I would look to find a Lomc cart in the price range that matches well from a compliance standpoint with his tone arm.

Josh

[LarryC]

Hi, Josh -- geez, at least you looked up the unit and specs and I didn't! His choice of MC may still need to be somewhat matched to it, because MC cart outputs vary greatly. Moreover, doubling or halving of voltage values produces a 6 dB difference, not just 3 db.

The 640p has 55 dB gain apparently for MC. My phono pre stage has 61 db, which seems to be pretty standard, and it works well with the 0.6 mv output of my Transfiguration [see correction in a subsequent post below]. I guess I'd be cautious about matching a 640p with, say, a 0.3 mv cart like some Denon or Ortofon MC's, where it might not be quite enough and create underlying noise issues. Hence my suggestion of some toll-free advice such as Needle Doctor.

[joshnich]

Absolutley agree that getting the straight scoop from a source like the needle doctor makes all the sense in the world. Matching the cart with the phono amp as well as the arm will yield significantly better results. And getting it right straight away will save considerable money versus shootingin the dark !

Josh

[kevinmi]

I recently bought an Ortofon 2M Black used for under $400.00, and it sounds every bit as good as my Koetsu Black LOMC that costs way more. There have been great improvements in cartridges in the past few years, so newer MM can sound quite good. I also have a Ortofon 2M Blue on another turntable which is quite good also.

[LarryC]

My phono pre stage has 61 db, which seems to be pretty standard, and it works well with the 0.6 mv output of my Transfiguration.

Oops, Gary reminds me that my Transfig Orpheus has only 0.48mV output, not 0.6. I apparently confused it with earlier Transfigurations.

Seems like a small difference, but voltage differences translate into dB differences squared (I think I got that right), so that half the voltage produces a 6 dB, not 3 dB, output decrease. Small point, perhaps, but you gotta be careful on phono gain with very low voltage carts.

BTW, the newest Orpheus carts have only 0.3 mV output, about 3 dB less than 0.48. That's Denon and Ortofon MC territory.

[kaiser SET say]

Man I would love to hear your system one day Larry! When I purchased my Well Tempered Amedeus a couple years ago I went with the LOMC Dynavector 20XL and then realized my BAT VK-P5 did not have the gain for the cart so I decided to go MM instead of buying yet more gear (Steps)! I borrowed Seti's 2M Blue and was very impressed with it but being a lover of the moving iron Staton sound went with a Soundsmith SMMC which I just love. I hope to come across a deal like Kevin got on his 2M black as a backup to my SMMC.

I bring all this up because I'm very familiar with the voltage swing thing with very low output MC cartridges[] The other fact was I also knew I could get into a Bob's device relatively inexpensively but I wanted something much more expensive[8-)] (I was desperately looking for the idiot emoticon on this one) [:$] LOL

I think I just finally decided I could try far more MM cartridges to play around with than MC, I may never really know what I'm missing[^o)]

[Rbgcc13]

Effective tonarm mass and the quality of the bearings will help drive your decision along with the end-product's ability to push enough voltage out to make the amps sing. If your lucky, meaning in my opinion only, to have a heavy mass arm with smooth bearings then a low compliance cartidge would be in order. And I do agree with the otheres, a low output is better, again IMHO, than higher output cartridges. I have been fortunate to have used a variety of cartridges, even a Stax CPX,, and I seem to be drawn to those that have a slight personality versus a clinical presentation. This is probably a result of most produced/studio records, espcially from the late 60s thru the 90s, the engineers rode their compressors hard, and peak leveled a lot of great music, and some of the more commercial records were recorded thru and mixed on less than desirable design boards - opamps with a zillion dB of feed back making the sound hard and brittle, at least that's my take. I haven't bought a new needle in quite a while so my price points could/will be off, I'm sure. At around $500, a couple to consider, first, ZU103 a MC, takes a well known product with known strengths and weaknesses and Zu mitagates most of the bad, very expressive, tons of snap/jump and a more forward presentation, a nice product w/o breaking the bank - solid product. Not sure if when you load down your phono/preamp for the cartridge if the dB gain in your setup is enough and if it swings big voltage, like max output 15+volts. BTW, loading is another one of those subjective things that I think is best done by the end-user employing trail and error, start at either 47K or at the reccomended load and keep changing it until it gives the sound you are hearing in your head, hopefully not voices telling you to do unthinkable things. Decca London, if it's even made anymore, similar attributues, very lively and engaging, draws you into the music, connects you, can be tempermental though and go away quickly as many have done in days of old. Its much higher output than most MC, its not a MM, the rather large cantiliver movers within a coil to generate a reasonable voltage output. Grado makes good stuff too, IMO they sound thicker/smoother and not as alive as the other two, but reliable as all mighty getout, basically, you probably can't go wrong with a Grado, it just doesn't jack me up. Out of the 3, I'd persoonally lean towrds ZU's version of the 103, assuming your arm mates well with it and you have ample voltage output to drive your amp, might have to twist the "V-knob" way up and hopefully it's noise floor is low - nothing worse than hiss riding on top of my tunes. On the cheaper side, Shure's V-15 replacement and Stanton's 681s were always good sounding - like a chain resturant - consistant quality, nothing fancy or outstanding but reliable, just not up to those previously mentioned. Also, I'd strongly suggest getting a record cleaning machine, it makes a big difference with the muck removed from the grooves.