bracurrie Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I am thinking about using Channel D's Pure Vinyl with Pure Music as a digital audio engine on a Mac to become my front end. Seems intriguing as a front end to a bi-amped two way system. The software has the ability to handle the active crossover duties using 64 bit algorithms for better DSP performance. It has the ability to handle more than enough PEQ settings. Its flexible implementation of RIAA curve correction is said to me more accurate than a lot of analog pre amps. So with a USB audio interface that handles multiple inputs, one with a mic preamp for my TT one for my RTR and one for my tuner and two pairs of outputs for my two way speakers, this configuration could take over the pre-amp duties of my sound system entirely. Since my existing setup uses a miniDSP I am already using a digital element in the path. Why not go all the way. Use tube amps as the last stage to warm it up. Now I remember, the reason I love Klipsch is rooted in my belief that an all analog path is better. [] Oh well, maybe I will have to find a way to have it both ways so I can scratch that analog itch when Jack White comes over. Just kidding, but he does live here now and he is making a real push with old school stuff. He is even cutting direct to vinyl at his studio.f pr What I really need is thoughts, suggestions and ideas on the multi-channel USB audio interface. Seems there a lot of them out there at prices that range from $80 to $8,000. 24 bit 48 kHz is the minimum, but I wouldn't mind climbing the value curve towards 192 kHz. Any higher would be silly for a repro system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Any higher would be silly for a repro system. Not if you really want to stay out of the way and reproduce vinyl a little smoother.I've been looking at this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/focusrite-saffire-pro-40-firewire-interface It has a firewire interface, but I think you could also use the optical out on your mac to feed a digital signal back to the 8 outputs. It is supposed to work with any of the Intel Macs. You will still need a phono preamp unless Channel D's software can take a line or microphone input and provide proper RIAA eq and gain. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 You will still need a phono preamp unless Channel D's software can take a line or microphone input and provide proper RIAA eq and gain. Thanks. The software indeed handles the curve correction duty and that is a benefit. Question is if I have a moving magnet phono couldn't I use the microphone gain that is built into the pro-40 audio interface? Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdog Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I also have thought about using the Pure Music program in an active three way system. I don't think I want to go away from an all analog vinyl system though. I really like the idea of the processing being done to the original digital data and not having to add another ADC/DAC conversion like most other DSP solutions. The interface I had my eye on was the Metric Halo. Is firewire out of the question? It offers many advantages over USB for a product like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdog Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The Metric Halo also has DSP and even RIAA funtions that are probably better than the PureVinyl and may make it's use completely unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The interface I had my eye on was the Metric Halo. Is firewire out of the question? It offers many advantages over USB for a product like that. I have had an MIO since the 1st release. It's still in use, on the road every day. Thanks to MH Labs upgrade program the unit is identical to any bought today (except for the scratches that is). Anytime I've needed repairs (which is twice I believe) they have had fantastic customer service and offered me a loaner. Their products are a "go-to" for the high end professional user for good reason. Show me any other manufacturer's 10 year old interface and I'll show you a $50 Craigslist listing! Firewire was originally designed for the transmission of digital audio and video and without delving too deep, offers some built in advantages that USB interfaces have to emulate to achieve similar performance levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The interface I had my eye on was the Metric Halo. Is firewire out of the question? It offers many advantages over USB for a product like that. If you have the coin for the MH, go for it. Of course, then you are forced to stay with a Mac with no other options. The FW interface is why I suggested the Focusrite, for a LOT less money.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thanks for your thoughts. There are some records that I will always want to play on a pure analog setup, but I have been enjoying them using a miniDSP for active crossover. So that's what got me to thinking about pure music and eliminating the miniDSP. Firewire is not out of the question, however my mac mini has that crazy firewire port that requires an Apple plug.[:@] so I am trying to use USB to set up a prototype system as proof of concept that this is doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 The Metric Halo also has DSP and even RIAA funtions that are probably better than the PureVinylI am new to this, so let me ask on what do you base the idea that Metric Halo's RIAA functions are better? I was thinking that the treatment of analog signals in the AI would be the critical path element. This makes me wonder how accurate are most analog RIAA correction circuits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 The interface I had my eye on was the Metric Halo. Is firewire out of the question? It offers many advantages over USB for a product like that. If you have the coin for the MH, go for it. Of course, then you are forced to stay with a Mac with no other options. The FW interface is why I suggested the Focusrite, for a LOT less money.Bruce The Mac is also serving ITunes where it so much more stable than on the PC. The MH is high but the Focusrite does looks like it would do the job well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 IMHO opinion, audio interfaces are like watches. Either go cheap or go with the best, the middle ground costs more without offering much in the way of sonic benefits. For your proof of concept pick up the Behringer FCA202 for less than $90. It's Firewire and what I still use everyday to connect my Mac to the home system. edit: less than $80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Either go cheap or go with the bestMakes sense to me. For your proof of concept pick up the Behringer FCA202 for less than $90Thanks for the suggestion. I will investigate as I need one that matches my MM cart for impendence and gain. Eventually I will need 4-6 channels of output for bi or tri amping using the Pure Music software for crossover and EQ as an active crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Here's the crossover you need - http://lake.labgruppen.com/products/lm_26_features/ The original Lake Processor model is still current in terms of software and filters (I own this one) and can be found used at places like soundbroker.com. They come in a variety of I/O options from 8 x 8 AES only up to 8 x 8 AES & Analog with Jensen option. You'd probably want a 4 x 8 with the analog cards. Here's a picture of what must be one of the coolest looking audio processors ever - http://www.johnstonaudioservices.com/inventory/dolby_lake_processors.shtml Fantastic sounding unit. The phase linearity (the single most overlooked spec in all of audio) is incredible even at extreme crossover and filter settings. Plus you can sit in your favorite listening chair and tweak all day via WiFi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I have used several DAC and DAC/ADC combinations with Audirvana and Pure Vinyl. Currently there is a Lynx Hilo in my main system. The Hilo is the best I have tried so far at $2,400. As for RIAA correction, PV RIAA applied digitally is my preference for MM cartridges. The Hilo does not have enough gain for MC cartridges, so a MC tube phono preamp or a MM tube phono preamp and step up produce my the best recordings to date. This most likely a function of the fact that my MC cartridges, phono stages and step ups are higher quality than my MM choices. At $400 the TC Electric Impact Twin is very good and can handle MC cartridges. Using the TC, I preferred PV RIAA over all else until a well matched step up was added. Either unit should handle 2 way speaker crossover duties. I have not tried this yet. Would need to drill some holes in my speakers to run direct connnections. Both are 24/192. If you would like to try my impact twin PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 There are firewire adapters for the mac plug. On the TCI used firewire for my external drive and usb for the interface or vice versa. The interface should not share a bus with anything else. See this for good info on all things digital. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 Using the TC, I preferred PV RIAA over all else until a well matched step up was added. Does your RIAA correction occur digitally with your pre-amp or is it accomplished in analog before conversion?BTW thanks for the gracious offer. I may take you up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliss53 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Before I got the step up transformer I used the RIAA applied digitally with MM and high output MC cartridges. After the transformer, MC cartridges with the phono stages in both my preamps sounded a bit better. The fact that my MC cartridges are of much better quality than my MM cartridges also pays a part. Unfortunately, my current ADC does not have the ability to handle moving coil cartridges. I have not yet found a quiet enough microphone preamp to bring the MC signal to the ADC. I will keep looking. The TC Electric has the range to handle all but the lowest output MC cartridges but the sound quality of my current ADC is so much better that I am using the configuration described above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 I have not yet found a quiet enough microphone preamp to bring the MC signal to the ADC. I will keep looking.I would like to help with the search. Please share the specs you are finding and the target for SNR you would like to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I found something that works well enough. I went to Guitar Center and picked up a Focusrite Saffire 6 USB. Enough gain on the 14 in front jacks but wrong impedence for my MM cartridge. But good enough to convince me that Pure Music server as the active crossover for a bi-amped all digital system works very very well. I will probably return it and keep looking, as I believe I want 6 channels of output for subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I found something that works well enough. I went to Guitar Center and picked up a Focusrite Saffire 6 USB. Enough gain on the 14 in front jacks but wrong impedence for my MM cartridge. But good enough to convince me that Pure Music server as the active crossover for a bi-amped all digital system works very very well. I will probably return it and keep looking, as I believe I want 6 channels of output for subs. That's why I had mentioned the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 Firewire (plus it will do 96k). It has 10 line outs, two being monitor outs. That would allow for stereo 3 way plus two sub outs. The Pro 24 has 8 outputs and is a little less expensive.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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