Center Channel Shootout

[jhawk92]

Now that I finally found my notes, I?ll put my thoughts down as I had the chance to compare center channel speakers in my HT. A bit of background would be best to start with. My HT consisted of Forte IIs as mains, two pair of KG 1.2s for surrounds and rear center, and a Paradigm PW-2200 as the subwoofer. The mains were driven by my Denon POA-5200 and the surrounds and center were driven by the Denon AVR-4800. I have been very pleased with this system for quite some time; I had originally started with a Denon ProLogic receiver and upgraded to the 4800/5200 combo about 2 years ago.

At that time, I had a KV-3 as my center channel speaker, and it had done an admirable job in that role for almost 7 years. But, as I upgraded to the 4800/5200, and was looking for back center speakers, I found this BB and started learning about timbre matching on the front three speakers. Many on the boards mentioned how great the Academy was for the Quartet/Forte/Chorus line, but they were very hard to find. At the time, I just stored that info away for future reference.

About a year ago, Chickey (Colin from NJ) and I were discussing center channel speakers as he has Chorus IIs. He had recently upgraded to the KLF-C7 from his KV-4 and offered it to me for a great price. We met soon after and he allowed me to demo the speaker for about a month before we finalized payment. Right away, I could tell a difference between the KV-3 and the KV-4. The ?4 was a bit brighter than the ?3 and I could hear a bit more of the dialog and center channel effects. Overall, I was happy with my front trio.

However, as I read more and more about the Academy, I became convinced I should be on the lookout for one. As I trolled eBay and the various audio web sites, the prices were quite outrageous. But, as luck would have it, about 4 months ago, someone posted on the BB asking how much an Academy was worth. Best part was the speaker was within 15 minutes of me. The seller and I made arrangements to purchase the speaker after I had a quick chance to verify its condition. We hooked it up as the center of his satellite speaker system and all the drivers were in great shape. We settled up on the price and I brought my new baby home.

As soon as I hooked it up between the Fortes, I could tell an amazing difference and the light bulb went on as I finally learned how timbre matching really is in person. I had put the KV-3 and the KV-4 in their respective boxes and put them in the basement until I could find a buyer and had immense enjoyment with the Academy.

Very soon after, Cluless (Carol) posted to the board she was looking for a KV-3 to match up with her KG-4s. We settled up on the price and shipping info and I brought up the speaker that brought me into the HT world. Then I got to thinking, since I had all three of the centers here, why not do a comparison and really see how they all sounded next to (sort of) each other. Granted, this wasn?t going to be any scientific experiment as I was going to have to demo each speaker individually, then unplug it from the cables, plug the next one in, set it to the correct volume with my trusty Rat Shack SPL meter, and then play the same passage. But, it would suffice.

Since the speaker was going out the next day to Carol, I didn?t have time to do a giant demo, so I just concentrated on movies where the three center channels would get their workout. I picked out three discs I have and am pretty familiar with; The Matrix, the THX-EX Demo disc, and the THX 5.1 demo disc. The last two I picked up on eBay for pretty cheap and they allow me to give great demos.

Here is what I played through all three speakers:

The Matrix, Ch 29-32, Shootout through the helicopter explosion. I was concentrating on the ?falling tiles? after Neo and Trinity get through with the hallway shootout; the elevator explosion; helicopter falling from the sky and subsequent explosion.

THX-EX demo disc

Broadway 2000

TEX

Jungle Sounds, concentrating on the footsteps, buzzing fly, and helicopter flyover as they moved across the front trio

THX 5.1 demo disc

Broadway

I played each title through each speaker consecutively, at the same volume setting on my Denon, and jotted down my thoughts. Again, this is nowhere near scientific, but it certainly gave me a good idea how all three speakers performed. I?ll list all my notes for each speaker together.

KV-3?To sum it up, after listening to the Academy for about a month, and plugging the KV-3 back in, it is apparent the KV-3 is not quite all there when trying to match with my Forte IIs.

- Missed the beginning footsteps in Jungle Sounds

- Fly not seamless as it flew across the front trio

- Helicopter flyover faded as it flew across the Forte-KV3-Forte combo

- Broadway & Broadway 2000 was good, but the little KV-3 had a hard time keeping up with the Fortes

- TEX was also good, but had a few ?dropouts? as he flew across the front stage and was not seamless

- Falling tile in Matrix was more noticeable in the left Forte than the combo of the left/center where it should be

- Elevator explosion, the KV-3 had a hard time keeping up

- Helicopter explosion had the same results, the KV-3 did well as a center, but you could tell a difference between the Fortes and the KV-3

KV-4?A more powerful speaker than the KV-3, but brighter, almost harsh. It did a better job keeping up with the Fortes, but I preferred the KV-3 timbre match.

- Beginning footsteps were not very sharp

- Fly was good, you could certainly tell the center was there, better than KV-3

- Helicopter flyover was almost harsh and shrill

- Broadway & Broadway 2000 were better; KV-4 kept up with Fortes but it was a tad bright

- TEX, again good, but bright

- Falling tile in Matrix had better center/left presence, but with the bright KV-4, I could hear the tile more in the center than the left main

- Elevator explosion, KV-4 kept up great, but it was a tad piercing

- Helicopter explosion was good overall

Academy?Wow, now I know what I was missing for all these years with the KV-3 and even the KV-4. It was seamless across the front stage.

- Beginning footsteps were crystal clear and seamless across the front

- Fly did not drop out or overpower as it did in the other two centers

- Helicopter flyover was quite realistic and balanced throughout the pass overhead

- Broadway & Broadway 2000 were outstanding, very smooth response from the front three speakers

- TEX didn?t lose the depth as he did on the KV-3 flying from the front to the back speakers

- Falling tile in Matrix didn?t sound out of balance; it was just to the left of the center speaker, in perfect detail with the movie

- Elevator explosion was a great match across the front three, Academy didn?t strain at all

- Helicopter explosion was outstanding, the ?Whump Whump? of the blades biting the air trying to keep the helicopter aloft were strong and powerful and then as it exploded and Trinity hit the plate glass window?I was in awe. I had found my new ?reference explosion? beating out when the Russian Alpha submarine is destroyed by its own torpedo in ?The Hunt for Red October.? ?You arrogant a$$, you?ve killed us!!?

So, after running through all of this in about 2 hours, I determined the Academy was here to stay and became a believer in what folks like HornEd, Doug Drake, and others said about timbre matching and spending good money on a center channel speaker. Granted, I might be even better served with a Quartet or another Forte as my center, but the WAF or current room configuration wouldn?t allow for hanging one of those from the ceiling or laying on its side on a 27? TV.

Maybe someday I?ll have the location where I could hang a Forte or even re-work one like HornEd has done in his ?tower of horns? with the KLF-30s. But for now, the Academy will certainly be a prized possession in my HT.

BTW, I have received word from both Carol and the gentleman I sold my KV-4 to, those speakers match up great with their respective designs; the KV-3 matches up beautifully with the KG series and the KV-4 matches great with the Epic line. So, we are all happy HT?ers!!

Now, of course, I have upgraded yet again; this time, purchasing Mike Lindsay?s near-mint Chorus IIs and have those as the fronts and moved the Forte IIs to surrounds with one pair of KG 1.2s as back center. That will be another review I?ll get to shortly, and I?ll post some pics of the new Klipsch ?family,? all in Oiled Oak except for the Academy which is in black to match the TV.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I thought folks would be interested in what I learned while demo-ing all three speakers. Feel free to post any comments. Thanks.

Rob

[Mikekid]

Great post Rob...........

I love this Academy too. It replaced a KG2.2v which was no slouch!

ChorusII main front

Academy center

KG1.5 rear surrounds

KG.5 front effects (Yamaha receiver)

SW12II sub......................................

I'd love to do the HornEd bit except instead of KLF-30's, use Chorus's all the way around. Problem is, they would have to double as the couch, coffee table, recliner, wood stove, floor, etc..........

Someday, I'm getting a bigger house!

Take care

Mike

[Mike Lindsey]

Rob,

Very informative post regarding the importance of the center channel. I have had my KLF-C7 for about a year now and have always wondered how my Chorus's would sound with an Academy. Now that I will have La Scala's as mains, I am even more sure of bigger timbre matching problems. For those of you with La Scala's in a HT environment, can you please list what center channel you are using and how it sounds to you?

I have looked at my wall unit and it looks like I might be able to fit a La Scala in it if I could figure out a way to hoist it. Maybe Q-Man can get over to my house and take a look at it, and give me a few ideas while he's at it.

BTW Rob, If you ever plan on selling your Academy in favor of one in Oiled Oak, then let me know. I will buy it from you as it would match my all black setup...

Mike

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My Music Systems

This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 06-24-2002 at 11:47 AM

[jhawk92]

Mikekid-

Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, that would be great, especially since I now have Chorus IIs as mains as well. A review on those will be coming soon. I was out of the loop for the past week with a family emergency and want to demo them right. Someday, we will all have a house big enough for our Klipsch obsessions.

Mike L-

And thank you for the kind words. With just a short bit of time with the Chorus II/Academy combo, I can tell you it is incredible. I sort of envy your dilemma...what matches up with LaScala? Ah the tough life we lead. I'll be interested in your thoughts once you get those back home, and play around with hoisting one up! Yikes, your G/F must love your obsession. I know my wife would have issues with hoisting big speakers around.

I'll keep you in mind if I ever make the switch from black to oiled oak on the Academy. There was one on eBay last month, but the price got too high and I knew your Chorus IIs were in my future. When I was down in Hope for the PWK book signing and I got to audition with Tony Reed, I saw his OO Academy. Sure looked nice, and matched up well with an oak wall unit. However, for now, since I have a black TV, the black Academy certainly makes a nice decorating statement; subdued color but outstanding sound. Kinda like a beater car with a hot engine and NO2!

Will start working on the serious Chorus II audition tonight. Will stick with them as large for now, as that's how the Fortes were. At some other point, I'll try the large/small routine and see what all the "small fuss" is about.

Rob

[Vahorns]

I recently added a Cornwall as a center channel speaker

to four other Cornwalls in my home theatre.

Unbelieveable!

Enuf said!

[cluless]

Rob after continued listening using the KV-3/KG-4 front configuration, there were some cases where the transition across the front was not as smooth as I would want it to be, and there were times that I had to modify the speaker configuration to "back off" the center, It was just too strident. This could be due to a number of factors of course, the first being; my unfamiliarity with the HT Experience; secondly, poor quality of media being viewed/listened to; and finally, the speaker match was just "not quite right". Most likely it was a combination of all 3 with a little extra weight going to the speaker match issue. I have a friend that has KG4.5s and I think that would be the best match for the KV-3. The 4.5s have just a bit more punch..

This all becomes a moot point, since I just recently discovered a tear in the surround my passive radiator of one of my KG4s, which I am attributing to one of my DARLING feline friends, I am in "dry rot denial". So I will repair my KG4, and send the pair to the bedroom where the wear/tear/exposure will be less. Then I Just HAD to upgrade to R7s. (I don't have the patience to play the watching and waiting game for acquiring older speaker models). Hell I might even buy one of those therapeutic (according to Shapeshifter) SVS hot water heater subs.

[BBB]

Cluless, I'm dropping in here for a few seconds.

What are you doing with your HT now. Are you getting RF-7s and an RC-7 ? And you want to put the center on your sony ? I'll be back later .The hound of the Bebervilles must be feed and let loose with the Kraken

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tHe wORLDs werst TYPesT>

[cluless]

BBB- Yep, went for the RF7s , the footprint of those monsters(actually smaller than the KG4s) gives me another few inches of space. Where my major concern lies, is applying the 42 lbs of weight (the RC-7) sitting on top. of the TV, WITHOUT having the linear length (width according to Klipsch) of the speaker being supported by whatever structure exists for the sides.. AKA the saggy middle syndrome..

BTW- I have a toll free number for Kracken eradication..I believe you need to call Trident-Posiden ------------------

-------- reconnecting here

Maybe If I put a board the the width of the tv on top, it would help distribute the load better? I just don't want to screw up the TV, but I don't have room for an entertainment center thing.

This message has been edited by cluless on 06-25-2002 at 05:12 AM

[jhawk92]

Carol-

Wow, sounds like the upgrade bug hit you hard! Well, I can certainly understand that, since I jumped on Mike's Chorus IIs. Well, congrats on the new acquisitions. Guess the KV-3 will be back up for sale then?

[cluless]

BIT ...NO...I WAS SWALLOWED WHOLE....

This was really what I wanted to do in the first place, but I "lost" the local-hi fi store (I really think they moved it while I was away). I didn't want to spend that much cash without auditioning the speakers, so I just opted for the ROUND1 version. Well, after finding the hole in my surround, I decided to look a little harder, and voila - I found the place. Auditioned the speakers and ordered them on Friday (also ordered a replacement radiator for the KG4s).

The speakers will be in - "about 2 weeks". I'll probably keep the KV-3 and the SS-1s for a few weeks after that...just in case. After that they will be up for grabs/auction. Haven't replaced the sub (KSW-12) yet, but the boss is out of town the end of the week, and "surf-city" could wind up being "spending-frenzy".

Came up with a neat scheme to save money also - Spend your income tax check in advance of actually receiving the check...timing the credit card billing date with the anticipated check date...then send in your return without signing it...By the time the check came (8 weeks later) ROUND1 was paid for. Scramble scramble.

AFTER THIS (and maybe the sub) I'M DONE DONE DONE..(yeah right)

[jhawk92]

Carol-

Well, good for you. Hopefully you can bite the upgrade bug from the inside then. Going from the KG to the R-7 is quite a jump, so you may just be done on the speaker front...unless you want to go the fully-loaded horn route. But sounds like you might be the 2nd token female on a next visit to Hope!

[cluless]

lol, 2nd token female? - I knew that female klipschters were rare - but now I feel like an endagered species - just another "bird" going the way of the passenger pigeon. Got the dark glasses so no one can see me, don't wanna get shot down before the speakers come in.

[BBB]

Hey Cluless ,mabe you should on this deal.

Dual CS-Ultra Subwoofers

Includes :

Samson 1000 watt amp

Better cables interconnect

4 Railroad spikes (for attaching Klipsch RC-7s

To the tops of Sony 36 model TVs)

All for $1,999.00

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tHe wORLDs werst TYPesT>

[cluless]

BBB-

No, No, No! I already have a tag team of (hardware) engineers ready to redesign my entire house with a system of pulleys , heavy chains, lag bolts, molly bolts and cement footings, and while they are at it, I think they are going to convert my crawl space int a full basement.

[HornEd]

So cluless, here, next to hubby SteveP is Miss Becky aka MysteryGuest who became the Original Token Female of the Klipsch 2000 Factory Tour in Hope (AR). Steve hired on as an Indy Klipsch Mondial Maven and may be found administering extreme function to the amp end of the Forum.

Now you know there is indeed a Klipsch "token female" and that BBB is a higher caliber than the North Jersey "bb" you took him for.

Of course, an original "Klipsch Tolkin Female" has yet to "ring" true with the lords of production. Caution, this position may be hobbit forming. -HornED

This message has been edited by HornEd on 06-28-2002 at 05:36 AM

[cluless]

BBB - I was actually thinking more along the lines of the 25-31 PCI sub. I saw the add for the package you mentioned, and I didn't see the RR spikes - are they a special add-on, or a Bonus Gift? I love freebies!

The other speakers won't be here for another week or so, and I'm really hoping to make do, for at least a little while, with the KSW-12.

Ommmm....I will exhibit will power and self controlâ¦I will exhibit will power and self controlâ¦I wilâ¦â¦, now where is that VISA card?

This message has been edited by cluless on 06-28-2002 at 06:42 AM

[BBB]

Well Clu maybe you should try and live with your new Reference speakers for a while before melting anymore credit cards.The KSW-12 is no slouch and I think you will be pleased. SVS has a return policy. The problem is not many people take advantage of it once they get the water heaters pounding away in their system.The ones I have don't match the cherry RFs but I don't care when it comes to the subs.Your ears will have to adjust and you may not be able to just add the SVS flat out to your set up. It depends on alot of things including your receiver. If you get that far the guys at SVS will help you along with your fellow Klipschters.

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tHe wORLDs werst TYPesT>