CMG Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I just recently purchased a set of KLF 20s and noticed one of the cabinets makes a rattle at louder levels. I took some pictures of 1X1 pieces of wood glued in the corners. The foam is different in both cabinets as one has yellow foam stuffed in it, and the other has grey foam that seems to have been placed and cut around. Second question has to do with the crossovers. Is it the stock crossover? Thanks for the help ahead of time, Chris pic brace behind the upper 10" woofer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMG Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 2nd Yellow foam that was stuffed behind the woofers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMG Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Another interior pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMG Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 last Crossover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 both of my two sets of KLF20 had a little more strapping than yours but that (yours) looks stock to me. Many of the KLF have problems with a batch of very bad hot melt adhesive which was used to bond only the front and back baffles. I would recommend you remove the baffles (all four) and scrape off and out all the old hot melt adhesivel Sand off the black melamine off the baffles everywhere you want a brace or strapping then you can use good old cheap and easy to use PVA wood glue to put it all back together for a 100% total and complete repair, stronger than new. The cabinets need and deserve strapping on all the inside joints and they deserve braces on all the pannels and strapping to tie all the braced panels together. They will reward you with a huge improvement in bass quality and impact. I can't open any of your posted pictures so I cannot comment on the stock crossover. Do yourself a favor and buy a set of titanium tweeter diaphragms and a set of titanium mid diaphragms then build a balls to the wall set of crossovers with air core inductors top quality caps and the german C-core autotransformers. These may be the last speakers you will want to buy. There are numerous modifications you can do to the woofers and both compression drivers and the horn lens can also be modified. That's if you are interested. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I knew there was a problem with the adhesive, but didn't realize it was that bad. So, what's with the German C-core autoformers? The UT stuff is better than most give them credit for: very high inductance, great steel, bifilar wound, and dipped in varnish - what more could someone want? Al and myself just had UT cook up another one, which we call the 3619-ET. How does 18dB of attenuation with increments of 1dB sound? And no more tables - the attenuation levels are written right on the unit. Are there any pictures or specifications available for the German unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Here is a picture The vendors name is Werner I cannot recall his last name or site name off hand. I bought seven of these last year they are excellent. You can read SET12's comments and he has more pictures. see the link. I would not consider switching back to stock. Best regards Moray James. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159340&highlight=rf25+modification&page=34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I won't read SET12's posts anymore, they give me indigestion. :-) "Werner" doesn't help me. Does he have a website, contact info, etc.? c-core, i-core, p-core, u-core may all be different in construction but basically accomplish the same thing. We mostly care about saturation and hysterisis, and neither are going to be an issue in the high pass section using the power levels employed by high efficiency loudspeaker systems in the home. Though the newer designs from UT are much better constructed units, it is doubtful that they offer any actual audible improvement over the old stock units. A long piece of copper is a relatively simple thing, and any audible difference (between the UT unit and the German C-core) is most likely caused by a slight change in the attenuation level. As for inductors in general. we might also care about loss (Q Factor), eddy currents, and nonlinearity -- all rendered non-issues by the use of Litz air core units. In low pass systems, a good steel laminate type provides very low DCR at a reasonable cost. The only thing an 8 AWG air core accomplishes is empyting out your wallet, well, unless you plan on pushing 1000 watts through your system, then the 8 AWG air core might have something to offer. Bigger isn't always better, and sometimes "better" isn't anything more than just "different" -- and they aren't the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Well it does not sound that you are much interested. It would seem that you have made up your mind and that's fine. For those who may be interested you can contact the vendor at the address below. Best regards Moray James. werner jagusch variometer@gmx.de vendor/manufacturer of German C-Core autotransformers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieWoof Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yeah those large air core's sure are Pretty & Darn they also are Pretty Expensive as well Al from ALK said sure I could use them but they'd add nothing to the sound over what I use & cost you a left nut I'm Paraphrasing Al of coarse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 A c-core is not an air core, and Moray, just because I seem to have my mind made up doesn't mean I'm not interested or can't be swayed into trying them. Of course, if the price is over the top insane then I'm not going to be able to try them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I know that. I am very glad to hear that. I don't think that I want to try and sway you or that I could. I think that you will just have to do that for yourself. A little less cranky would go a long way if you really want people to sway the way for you. Nobody was ever sorry that they bought quality. Are you close enough to Dan to make the treck and listen for yourself? You could ask Dan if he knows of anyone with the German iron who is close to you. Other wise you may have to take it on trust but that is up to you. Thanks fo being open minded. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Bartay Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Moray was a big help last year when I helped my neighbor repair a pair of KLF-20 that had loose seams. IIRC do a search here I think there is a post with pic's on this repair. Take your time and be gentle with the rubber mallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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