mobile homeless Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Curious about single-ended triodes with horns? Here is your chance to get a completely factory wired pair of Welborne Labs 2A3 Monoblocks with the Ultimate Upgrade. The price is $1975 but might be talked down a bit. It is actually quite rare to see the factory wired models go on sale as most were sold as kits. These amps compete with commercial amplifiers up to three or four times this price. Please check out the link below. Inquire about the tubes seeing if the Mullard GZ-37 were included in the Ultimate Upgrade package. The Ultimate Upgrade package also comes with the Jensen Copper Foil Paper in oil caps. In addition, you receive the Black Gate WKZ cap in the power supply. I do believe Caddock resistors are included as well. The amps come with Sovtek 2A3, probably the best all around deal in new 2A3 tubes. AudiogoN Link: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1030972073&class&3&4& As probably the first on this forum to delve into the Welborne 2A3 Moondogs, I spread the word with a bit of an apprehensive note, wondering if people here would go with this rather obscure 3.5w solution. Since then, several have opted for the Welborne Labs Moondogs and from the sound of it, to all out success. Several here have also opted for the Wright Sound 3.5 2A3 Monoblocks as well. These Wright amps are a great deal with excellent midrange but come in second to the Moondogs in bass extension, top end detail, purity, and blackness of background. These amps work very well with Klipschorns, Belles, LaScalas, and Cornwalls. Once here, most never turn back. kh Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-06-2002 at 12:44 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Sold ... Went fast! Thanks for the head's up, Kelly. PS Wasn't me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 4, 2002 Author Share Posted July 4, 2002 Lord. I am really surprised they sold so fast as they didnt last half a day. Yet, it is quite rare that factory wired units come up for sale as they were very expensive when not in kit form and have been discontinued over a year. Actually, I was really hoping Chris or Mike Lindsey would find these as I have been talking to them for quite a while about SET disease. I think Mike was even closer to making the leap of faith after just purchasing the LaScalas (he didnt opt for the Khorns). I think ole Chris is still smitten with his EICO and he has good reason to be. When hooked up with a great unit in restored condition, it exhibits something not found in many amplifiers, either tube or solid state. Still, the Moondogs are a different animal altogether. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-04-2002 at 07:32 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 I was going to post the link to them when I saw it, but mobile posted it first. I too was hoping Chris or Mike would jump on them. This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-04-2002 at 07:56 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Hello Kelly. I snagged those Moondog amps. I saw the ad on Audiogon this morning around 8:45. I sent an email with some questions. Julian responded this afternoon. I made an offer of $1800. He responded with a counter offer of $1900 & he would pick up $80 to $90 shipping. I am stoked that I am going to be getting a high quality 2a3 tube amp to mate with one pair of my Cornwalls. I will have to pick up a passive preamp, Creek OBH 12, FT Audio LW1 or Mccormack TLC 1. The guy lives in Midlothian Virginia-suburb of Richmond. I just spent $3000 several days ago on a Lennox 3-1/2 ton condensor unit for my central air conditioning. The old unit was 19 years old & the compressor went out. I had replaced the furnace back in 1999 when the evaporator coil plugged up, it was the original furnace in the house that my dad built in 1964. I will not be able to afford a tube preamp for a while. Kelly, he has the original boxes for packing. Any idea of the shipping weight? He had 40 lbs listed in his ad. Thanks for your reply. Regards, Mike ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 4, 2002 Author Share Posted July 4, 2002 Mike, really glad you got them. I might be selling my little Creek unit so I'll let you know. Ole Lindsey is going to be kicking himself he didnt get them either as he has been keeping an eye out. I almost forgot you were interested! Glad someone from here got the beasts. Ironically enough, I believe Klipsch horn owners have gotten five of the last six Welborne products to go up for sale, and most, if not all, from the 2 Channel forum. Quite impressive. As for shipping, it all depends how he packs them. Mine came to me in two small boxes placed in a HUGE box filled with styrofoam peanuts and was about 50-60lbs. I think shipping actually ended up being around $30-40 (UPS) or so but this was quite awhile ago. They came from Atlanta area so not that far to travel. It's better to pack the hell out of them and pay a bit extra. For sure, his offer will cover the shipping I am pretty positive. Let us know what's up. Hope it goes smoothly. Congratulations! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Mike, Congratulations on your purchase! I am sure you are going to be quite pleased with the Moondogs. My Moondogs also came to me packed in two boxes inside a larger box filled with styrofoam peanuts. Shipping from SanFrancisco Bay area to Atlanta was less than $60 including insurance so that should be covered by the seller no prob. Be sure to report back about how you like the Cornwall/Moondog combo in your system. ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connect Speaker Cable DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-04-2002 at 09:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 AW..... SHUCKS! I didn't log on in time to get them! Just kidding everyone. Congrats Mike on your purchase of Moondogs. Out of curiosity, did the former owner have a case of upgrade-itis? If he did upgrade, what did he upgrade to? In any event, his sale is your gain, and I hope you will enjoy your Moondogs and share your impressions with us. On the subject of shipping........ I had my Moondogs shipped from New Jersey to California and $80 should cover you. Make sure to ship FEDEX and NOT UPS. I would not trust UPS to ship my old sneakers, and certainly not your Moondogs. You should opt for 3 day FedEx because they will ship it by air, and it will take less than three days. FedEx does not hold on to packages that arrrive early, they try to deliver as soon as possible. I had mine shipped three day and they were delivered in two. UPS does not do this and will leave your package sitting in a depot,(to possibly get damaged) until the delivery time period is due. They also do not handle packages with the care that FedEx does. Airborne Express is another option. I repeat, Do Not Ship UPS! Klipsch out. This message has been edited by jazman on 07-05-2002 at 03:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 That is quite a long way to ship and I read the UPS warnings loud and clear. It's just that I have only had GOOD luck with UPS although I have read all the horror stories concerning UPS/USPS etc. I find that if you pack the package properly and are able to actually get it to a UPS counter, the delievery is very respectable. I have not seen them leave the packages at the depot for days but then again, perhaps I have a good one here. I actually know my UPS driver by name and he puts my packages in the house if I am busy. I think the main concern is for packing. If you pack your item well, and insure it for a "proper" amount, it will do fine, whether through UPS or FEDEX. Accidents WILL happen but most I have seen come from circumspect packing (the only damaged item I have ever had was from the USPS and it was absurdly packed). Fedex is generally more expensive. IF someone else is shipping FedEx, I surely wont argue however! heh... UPS has a GREAT online system where you can print your labels and have the shipment registered and prebilled. All you do then is just hand it to a driver or drop it off at the nearest UPS counter or drop station. It's a great service and Free. I use it all the time. A thanks goes to Edster00 for getting me to go with this. I have used it ever since. Guess I am just lucky. My Moondogs arrived UPS in perfect shape as well. But if he can swing FedEx, perhaps that is the option. Just dont know about writing off UPS unless you have a bad depot in youre area. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-05-2002 at 07:58 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 I sent him an Email yesterday afternoon and he said he wouldn't take less than $1900 for them. After all the money I have spent in the last month I really didn't have it. I will get them one day but now is not the time. I'm going to Pittsburgh on the 9th for a week of golf, and am then going to Rockland Maine on the 27th for 2 weeks with my girlfriend. That set me back a pretty penny but it should be worth it. Thanks for thinking of me Kelly. BTW, if you see these on Audiogon, shoot me an Email before you post it to the board. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Mike, Congrats on the amp purchase! BTW don't underestimate that little creek passive preamp! If you don't need to siwtch between lots fo inputs, don't need to add gain to any source before the amplifier and assuming you like the sound of the amp, avoiding the need to modify the sound further with a tube preamp, I doubt you will find anything better, by that I mena more transparant. I know that a few people on this board have that preamp are are totally satisfied with it. Both Randy Bey and Myself for example are big fans/users of that unit...so enjoy! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Mike, if you and your Ms. are driving from PA to ME and want to stop in for a meal and/or a round of golf on the way, give me a shout! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 Sunnysal, I was practically the one that talked ye olde Randy into the Creek unit along with a host of others. I have one myself. I will be the first to admit, the little Creek does a great job getting out of the way considering the price and is, as you said, pretty transparent. On the other hand, after living with the little Creek along with many other passive preamps, I have come to the conclusion that the passive, even when met with ALL the conditions, lacks a bit of the midrange warmth, drive, and dynamics of a quality tube preamp, or perhaps even a transformer impedance matched passive. At the very least, for a passive to work well, one must have the following conditions met: 1. A VERY good source with an excellent stiff power supply, and enough volts (at least 2v) to drive the signal. 2. Good output stage via the same source. Cheap op-amps can rob the presentation as well. 3. Short interconnects of a meter or less. Too long, and you get roll-off and a loss of high end. 4. A Sensitive enough amplifier. The Wright Sound 2A3 do not work well with a passive. The Moondogs do much better. Make sure you amps have a high enough sensitivity rating. 5. Reasonably efficient and easy to drive speakers. With Klipsch, this is usually not a problem. s> A passive will let you know you have a poor match up or downstream. I have been pro-passive for years and years. But still, I will have to admit as I said above, I believe a normal passive does lose a bit of the midrange bloom and drive, even under perfect conditions. Many are trying the transformer shod passives lately and reporting better results. I have had buffered passives and regular units. They do help with the length of interconnects problem, but some of the other weaknesses come through. The Creek is a great low cost option though. It does not have the most transparent volume control, however. But the remote is addictive. Still, I personally think the Moondogs do appreciate a quality tube preamp, but it has to be damn good to pass the passive. But the midrange bloom, dynamics, and overal presentation seems to gain a needed warmth and substance that does not quite come through with the standard passive device. That being said, a passive is a great option and the cheapest way to get top notch sound while in search for the right unit. The used Creek OBH-12 is certainly a good candidate. As I stated in a past post, Consonance is coming out with a passive version that is coupled to a transformer to make the impedance match more agreeable. The use of the DACT attenuator, will also add to the transparency as well and this unit will probably be available in kit form quite cheap. I personally have almost totally stopped use of my passive preamps in favor of my active tube pre. I still do like the option however. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-05-2002 at 11:08 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Chris, Thanks for the invite, but Debbie and I will be flying into Bangor and then renting a car to Rockland. Just out of curiosity, how far are you from Pittsburgh? I will be there for a week. BTW, the same invitation is extended to you if you're ever in the Orlando area... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 And I would like to cordially invite anyone within 1200 miles to my beach abode any time in the area for you to pay my mortgage and perhaps take my lovely wife and I to dinner. Just leave a message. You two loons.... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Sorry ... I just thought ... Heck, driving from Pittsburgh to Maine, he'd HAVE to come out the Mass Pike, to I-290 to I-495, and right by my house. I know he's a stick, too, so right off the bat, we could do a round of golf at the club, I would lose lots of money, then we could hang at the house, listen to tunes, grill up a few snakes on the grill -- and he'd be on his way. In theory, anyway. Of course, he's WAAAAAY smarter than that and will fly. P'burgh to Bangor is about a 15 hour, Five Dead Dog, Three-Accident trip. Actually, I'm in Orlando occasionally on business. Mike, when does the temp drop below 140 there? Like September or October? Anyhow, Mobile's going to throw the "Here Comes The Hurricane" Lookout Party on his deck, and we're all invited as long as we bring mortgage money and three bottles of decent Chiraz. Road trip ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Actually Chris, I'll be flying to Pittsburgh, then back to Orlando (home for 2 weeks) and then up to Maine with Debbie for another 2 weeks. Although, I like your itinerary much better. BTW, I shot a 73 yesterday, hitting the last 9 greens in regulation with not one putt longer than 15 feet. I only made one of them, missing a 3 footer and a 5 footer in the process... typical fare for me actually. Thanks for the invite mobile! I will be taking you up on it sometime in the near future. Mike Edit: Chris, forgot to mention that November to February is great golf weather down here... This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 07-05-2002 at 01:59 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Mike, yeah, you got game ... I took this week off for vacation and snuck in 1-1/2 rounds as a guest over at the International Golf Club here here in neighboring Bolton. The "old" 18 (Pines Course) plays 8,325 yds from the tips (Tiger Tees) -- longest golf course in the world, largest single green in the world - and boasts two 275 yd+ par-3's over ravines, water and prehensile animals. I don't hit it that far usually, but managed to reach one of the par threes. Cool course. Also played the IGC's new 18 (Fazio design), easily the most manicured, pampered 18 I've EVER played. Flawless. http://www.theinternational.com/club/scripts/public/public.asp?NS=PUBLIC I'm still a 6 but playing like the true hack I am. Why does your handicap sink like a stone when you throw a few 74's or 75's up there ... and it doesn't budge when you post 83's and 84's? Computers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 When I said "typical fare for me", I meant missing the putts... not shooting the score. If those putts were all for par, I would have made half of them. That IGC looks like a tremendous course. The hardest (and longest) course I have ever played is the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island. We played it from the tips one time and it is just a monster. You have to hit the ball at least 240 on every hole just to get it to the fairway. Almost impossible on the holes where the wind is blowing at you. I shot a smooth 98 and was one of two guys to break 100, and we had a number of single digit handicappers there. Absolutely brutal! We played it from the blues from then on. Mike Edit: I forgot to mention I really love Tom Fazio designs. Pinehurst #7 and #8 are both Fazio designs, and are two of my favorite golf courses. He also has a course at Kiawah that is very difficult and a fan favorite. This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 07-05-2002 at 04:34 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Hello y'all. I Express mailed a $1900 cashiers check from my bank to Julian this morning. The check will be delivered tomorrow. I called Julian this afternoon. He bought the factory assembled Moondogs 1/30/2002 as part of system discount. He also bought some lowther drivers & Oris 150 horns. He is selling them also. He bought a ATC active speaker system as replacements. The amps have 20-30 hours on them. He was using a solid state Sierra Whitney amp to drive bass drivers & the Moondogs on the Oris horns. Julian suggested using my Mcintosh C38 preamp instead of a passive preamp. He does not like passives. How good is the base model AES AE3 tube preamp? How would it compare to a passive preamp? The Antique Soundlabs TIDT passive preamp uses autoformers, was reviewed on Enjoy The Music ezine. What does a transformer do to a passive preamp performance wise? I am a tube newbie so I can use advice & guidance. Julian is going to make a copy of the sales receipt for me. He does not know which parts were used in the upgrade package, he did not request any specific parts to customize. Are oil caps part of the normal upgrade package? He did not know whether the rectifier tube was a Sovtek 5AR4 or Mullard CV378/GZ-37. I am a tube newbie so I need some learnin' on tubes-Tubes 101. Are there 4 tubes per mono block amp? Could any of you knowledgeable tube gurus explain the various tubes & functions. I know the 2a3 is the power tube but that's about it. Julian has the original 3 piece boxes, 2 small boxes fitting inside one large box. Will ship Fedex 3 day air next week. I will not use UPS. UPS has burned me twice. Fedex Air has been good to me & has not damaged any of my Mcintosh equipment when I have used them as a shipper. Julian suggested I contact Ron Welborne to find out what parts were used in the upgrade package. He is going to send me some email pics. I am like a little kid waiting for Christmas to come. My cd players are a Mcintosh MCD 7009-output voltage 2.2 & Pioneer Elite PD 65 output voltage 2.0. Thanks for all advice & guidance. It is greatly appreciated. Regards, Mike ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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