raburns Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 John Warren at North Reading Engineering just told me to try something inexpensive to smoothe up the mids and highs on the Type AA Khorn. 100uF NP Electrolytic Capacitor bridged over woofer terminals on xover. 5.0 mH I-Core Inductor bridged over squawaker terminals on xover. 1.5 mH P-Core Inductor inserted in series between speaker supply positive input and the 2.5 mH woofer inductor. I made a second board to mount the two inductors on as well as a terminal strip to make connections tidy. Turned out rather handsome. Also installed: New Klipsch K-401 moulded horns, very nice, no ringing, sounds like a high priced wood horn. New Bob Crites CT125 tweets, wow really sounds so nice. Befor this repair violins and brass instruments made listening uncomfortable to say the least, I can hardly wait to crank these babies up!!!! Thanks goes out to John Warren and Bob & Mike Crites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Excellent, I am glad you are enjoying your upgrades. Basically you converted your crossover to an AK-3. Dave Edited December 16, 2013 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) ALK sent me this modified schematic this morning pertaining to your crossover upgrade. Basically states the tweeter input needs to be move to the input of the 13uF cap rather than the input to the autoformer. I missed that altogether. The 13uF in series with the 2uF gives an effective total of 1.73uF rather than the intended 2uF at the input of the tweeter filter. Dave Edited December 16, 2013 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It was 2 AM when I saw this, but I was too tired to type, and I don't like the new "rolleyes" gif. This one is a little tricky. It's really two-thirds of an AK-3, since the AA tweeter filter is still in play. With that in mind. I'm not sure which is right -- leaving the tweeter connection off of Tap 5 or moving it to input. The 5mH coil in parallel with the midrange was also intended to be used with the K-55-M, the OP is using the K-55-V. A composite K-401 (exponential) doesn't sound anything like "a wood horn" (tractrix) -- not even a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) This one is a little tricky. It's really two-thirds of an AK-3, since the AA tweeter filter is still in play. It's a bit of a Kludge, but if it sounds good to the end user, that's what counts! A composite K-401 (exponential) doesn't sound anything like "a wood horn" (tractrix) -- not even a little bit. I agree, however the original poster didn't say anything about a wood Tractrix....... He said "sounds like a high priced wood horn." I don't presume to know which high priced wood horn was used for comparison. Dave Edited December 16, 2013 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) I only "presumed" because most anything anyone relatively new, or from around here would be most familiar with in the wood department would be tractrix. Edited December 16, 2013 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raburns Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 K401 v/s Traxtrix: Hey you guys are right, I just wanted to see what you guys may have to say about my statement that the K401 sounds as good as an expensive wood horn. You answered my curiosity, I need to go buy a nice wooden horn and part out my old Klipsch components. I guess the Khorn is a nice enclosure/starting point for a cabinet, I'll bet PWK is clawing to get out after that. Well, I guess I need to save alot of cash for the next upgrade, 2 inch throat wooden horns, good 2 inch driver, maybe a tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raburns Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 I want a 2 inch horn, but I do not really want to remove a top hat support leg like I've seen done, got any ideas gentlemen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Overkill Alan, seriously - unless you have a really big room. Keep it simple. While you're saving your money, take the time to educate yourself. I thought you were doing the AK-5 Upgrade Kit? My Crossover Roadshow networks only have one place left to go before they come back to Ohio. You should try them to at least see what you think. Invest in a pair of Dave's Fastrac horns, and a pair of B&C DE120 (or Beyma CP-25) tweeters. At that point you would be done with the Klipschorns, and could then invest in a better receiver or integrated amplifier. Try to put a little bit of trust in those of us who have already gone down this path. BTW, with respect to John, but the AK series of crossovers are normally replaced with the Type A or Type AA crossovers. There are exceptions, and I suppose you very well could be one of them, but the great majority either prefer the A, AA, Super AA, Universal, or ESNs. IOWs, the AK series of networks aren't all that high on the most preferred list. I think you like what you're hearing mostly because it's different. Why not learn to solder - you need to get those old capacitors out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raburns Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Wow, I have complete trust in you gentlemen, I know your pros. I can't thank you enough, thats what I want, great information, I will copy that statement and save until I can buy it. No more changes until I have the complete list. Can't wait to hear that system. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Soon find my components for sale on this forum in garage sale items. As far as the AK-5, no, not unless recommended, I want my next upgrade to be of high line components, seriously maybe a two way. Crossover Roadshow networks demo sound great. Dave's Fastrac horns and maybe the Eliptrac horns are certainly on my list. I just bought Crites CT125's, because I had a blown tweeter, so I upgraded. I had Crites freshen my AA's and test run them for me, cheap fix for now, but way better than what I had in my old 1975 Khorns. Thanks fellows. Edited December 17, 2013 by raburns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finallygotmyheresies Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Have you posted them yet? If you have I cannot find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Good job Alan. Stay put for a while and enjoy what you're hearing while you plan out your next steps. Finallygotmyheresies, is your question directed to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Voltage simulations across driver terminals Red=AK bass filter MID shunt inductor Green = 5mH Light Blue = 10mH. Purple = 15mH Grey = AA. Simulations off TAP #4 on autoformer. Loads are idealized drivers (series R and L, no reflections) Edited December 17, 2013 by John Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I like the grey one, it sounds better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I want a 2 inch horn, but I do not really want to remove a top hat support leg like I've seen done, got any ideas gentlemen? The Eliptrac 400 does not require the removal of the support. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Ive got nothing but love for the K401... used in my 2nd DIY system and 1st La Scalas. This year has shown me a few things... Cheap drivers don't always mean bad sound. Dave turned me onto a Pyle 2" driver that was super inexpensive... ~$120 from PE... only down side was the weight. The K401 is great as a stock unit or baseline. Modern crossovers, horns and drivers allow for ultra high end sound that was not possible even 10 years ago. Im a fan of Dave Eliptrac 400s, but had PH800s and M2380s before that. The 2380 was great as a 2 way, but couldn't go high. The eliptrac does almost everything right. Money gets tight for us all. Id buy the kits from Dave and get to sanding... you'll own the best horns you can but and a true sense of ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I like the grey one, it sounds better. I like the blue one, it sounds better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) The tweeter net is still AA, no change there. Edited December 17, 2013 by John Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) I think you like what you're hearing mostly because it's different... Is that really true, do you live in his brain? I've made these "tweaks" and have given them a listen, many I've even measured, some I think sound better, some not so. Does the "you like what your hearing mostly because it's different" metric go for your nets as well? Edited December 17, 2013 by John Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) The last time I traded email with Alan, he was still using thirty-something year old networks, I wasn't aware he had sent them to Bob. I know what those old cans sound like, and falsely assumed that he was still listening with them. In that context, a "tweak" doesn't alleviate the effects caused by parts in need of attention. Therefore, "different" is just different, not better. When I had my Klipschorns, I build AK-3s from the ground up two different times. Both times I reverted back to the Type A. Over time, and in this case, about a decade -- a general agreement has been reached around here as pertaining to preference. Bob and myself also track our sales and we get plenty of feedback. The AK series of networks are barely on the map. I did state that there are those who prefer them and that Alan might be one of them. Yes, the "difference factor" applies to my networks too, but this is a case of where different really is better. At least, I'd like to think so. Edited December 17, 2013 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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