Deang Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 I solidified a deal on my Line 1 last night from a fellow who offered $1150 for it. My wife, who is a treasure beyond treasures -- has given me the nod to use the money for a system in our finished basement. The Klipsch and Audio Electronics gear will stay upstairs -- as this is for the most part my private sanctuary. The basement is pretty much unused, and it's quite a bit of space to not make use of. We have a nice couch down there and my dartboard (which is another one of my obsessions). I want to turn it into our primary "hanging-out" domain, and turn our somewhat small living room into a sitting room for reading. So, I have $1150 dollars. I will move the 32" Toshiba downstairs, along with my Marantz DV-7010. Now, what to do with that money. Last month, I almost bought those K-horns from that fellow in California. I had him down to $2200, which included shipping. The problem was, I lost a head gasket in my olds, and then didn't have enough money to buy them. When the AE-25 DJH showed up on Audiogon, I used the remainder of what I had left to buy it. I sold my original SuperAmp, and used the money for that to buy the AE-3. So now, here I am. How do you get maximum musicality for the least amount of money? Well, Audiogon and eBay of course. So, off I go to see if I can land some Heresy's. Well, sometimes things turn out funny, and as I was cruising though the listings I ran across a pair of DQ-10's in very good condition for the give-away price of $450. This is a complete no-brainer folks. Those who have followed my posts over the last year or two know I have a secret love affair with these monsters. The speaker is still manufactured by John Dahlquist's old gang (Regnar), with a few modifications -- for $3700. I can buy a capacitor upgrade kit for $189 and bring both speakers current. These beasts have a midrange to die for, with tremendous imaging capabilities. I am estatic that I got these for the price I paid. I would have paid double that amount to have them. So, I have a little more than $600 left, and could stretch that to $700. The speakers are 89db/w -- and so I have the following options: 1) Buy a fairly decent integrated amp with at least 100 watts. I was actually thinking about the Anthem Integrated with the tubed preamp section. 2) Buy separates. dbflash is selling his Parasound combo for $700. 3) Move my present front end with 35 watts to the DQ's, and then build myself a Consonance Joplin. I will probably wait to get Mobile's impressions before I make a decision regarding this option. Just so no one thinks I am a heretic -- the DQ-10 does have a horn super-tweeterf>------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-13-2002 at 10:31 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 Dean, You are a busy man !! I would love to hear your setup sometime. I'm in michigan where in Ohio are you ?? I could even load a few of my Vintage amps and my Heresy's for us to play with sometime. Craig ------------------ HH Scott 299 Amp HH Scott LT-110B Tuner HH Scott P-87 Turn Table JVC JL-F50 Turn Table Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive 1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers KSW-15 Subs>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 The DQ-10 can be a VERY musical speaker! Indeed, I bought a Nakamichi 1000 tape deck years ago from a loon who lived out in the back country of NC. He was a retired professor from Duke. I finally find his abode after a mile long winding driveway... He had a surprisingly musical setup using an old Linn table, an Audio Research SP-6c (I am not a fan of their preamps but this unit performed well in this setup), and a Class A 100w Threshold amp that had been modified by Nelson Pass of all people (whom he somehow knew). He was a classical music buff with thousands of choice vinyl. He was an eccentric beast to say the least but a great nut to hang around all day...which I ended up doing while listening to this amazingly engaging system all married to some cat hair encrusted DQ-10! It's a fond memory. Those speakers are very idiosyncratic speakers. I would steer clear of the Anthem integrated. I thought this an unappealing and rather sterile tube amp and was thoroughly disappointed. The dbflash deal seems good price-wise but you will need better amplification to wring great sound from that pair. And frankly, you can do much better. I'll give it some thought as well. kh Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-13-2002 at 11:50 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 13, 2002 Author Share Posted July 13, 2002 Craig, I live in Kettering, which is just an extension of Dayton. The only problem with your idea is that I rarely have weekends free. I work 12 hour shifts on both Saturday and Sunday, so my wife can work less hours to home school our children. Another option would be for us to take off on a Friday. I can get off work during the week much easier than on the weekends. I'm sort of the lone cowboy on the weekends -- where I sit around waiting for a catastophic network failure. Kelly, I already knew what your response would be as soon as I had seen that you responded to my post. I don't expect this system to have the resolving power of my Klipsch system, so I figured -- why not just stick an Anthem integrated in there? At least I KNOW what that stuff sounds like. All the various options are going to have some draw backs because of the money. It's bascially going to be the system playing while throwing darts, working on projects, and watching movies with the kids. Having lived with DQ-10's for five years while rooming with a buddy of mine -- I figure anything will make them sound better than the Adcom stuff he was using (and that actually sounded fairly decent). That same Adcom stuff is now powering some RC7's -- and that system drives spikes through my head -- though I would never tell him that -- because he absolutely loves it. The first thing is to give them a good going over and then replace those aged caps. The woofers were already professionally redone. I suppose there will be nights I will want to sack out in front of them and cruise down memory lane -- and I should do the best I can do with that money. One nice thing about them is that they are very forgiving of older, not so admirable recordings. Most of my Deep Purple, and other 70's music may actually sound better and be a little easier on the ears -- than the brutally honest RF7's. At any rate. In no way do I expect this system to compete with the dynamo upstairs. THAT system is in a completely different league altogether.f> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-13-2002 at 12:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 Well, I sound like a broken record here...but the vintage EICO HF-81 eats up the Anthem amp ALIVE in all ways (I have to admit, I actually prefer it to the stock Super Amp, believe it or not). But even if you dont want to go vintage, and do opt for some used solid state or tube combo, you can to MUCH MUCH better than the Anthem integrated. Man, this is really one of my least favorite tube integrateds. There are countless choices for the same ducats that are MUCH better and the DQ-10, though idiosyncratic and finicky, would really improve with some good amplification, amplification that does not have to cost you an arm and a leg. But I do believe the DQ-10 do really need some power, sadly to say. And it better be GOOD power... I think the intelligent perusal of the used market is your best bet. kh ps- The DQ-10 is one of those cult speakers that has many, many modification options from all sorts, many of which you can do on your own. Some go ape over the upgrades... others find the old beasts dated. They can sounds open as all getout with the right stuff. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-13-2002 at 01:09 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 13, 2002 Author Share Posted July 13, 2002 "indiosycratic" is actually a pretty good choice word for these. Ironically, I would apply the same word for Klipsch! I believe the minimum recommended power for the DQ-10 is 60 wpc. However, I KNOW my AE-25 has more output than a 60 wpc SS amp. What I will probably do is just hook up those monsters to the AE-3 and SuperAmp and let her rip. I'd planned on integrating the SVS into this system. I believe the SuperAmp will have no problem driving the DQ-10's in this configuration. The million dollar question is, how well will it drive them. We'll see. Also, since the crossover has a "by-pass" switch -- I could cut the sub out for music low level listening, and put the sub back in for moderate listening levels. Since the basement is much bigger than the listening area upstairs -- it may be possible to integrate the sub with SuperAmp. It looks like some experimention is coming down the road -- buy hey, that's half the fun! I don't remember -- is the Eico a directly heated triode, with tube rectification? If so, be on the lookout for me. As long as it's in a condition that I don't have to dink around with it-- it might be a good bet. However, I first have to see how the AE-25/AE-3 combo perform with these things.f> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 Dean, I wish you hadnt sold your stock Super Amp (indeed, I would have sold Chris' instead...heh), because now that you have a soldering iron and meter, I would have liked to see you try something that I have read about in several places with reports of good results. It involves making two of strapping two of the power tubes in triode while the other two remain in ultralinear. I have read good results from this but have to look over how it's done as you dont see this too often. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 13, 2002 Author Share Posted July 13, 2002 What I think you are saying is take a push-pull amp, and wire it so two of the tubes are running in triode, and the other two are running in ultralinear? What is the net effect of this? Simply increased output?f> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Hmpf. This HF-81 deal gets more interesting all the time. Seems like it was only the other day I felt so good about scoring a new in box Nakamichi AV-400 for about half price, needed something to replace my '77 Yamaha CR-640 I bought at the same time I got my Heresies. Now after hanging around here for a few months I'm looking askance at it. Those HF-81's are cruising through ebay regularly. What do you guys think of the Eico ST-40/70 integrated amps? Or the pre/power combos from Eico? I think I know where there is a Eico ST-70 I could get cheap. Would it ever be like an HF-81? Supposedly there is a fix for the loudness switch deal that helps the sound a lot. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 The ST-70 has more output power and many like it; the EICOs just have great output iron and are more a sum of the parts, parts that can look mighty circumspect. I personally think the HF-81 is the better choice since the tubes are much easier to locate, are cheaper, have many more options. The ST-70 outputs are rare birds these days with only one Russian example being made today that only gets so-so reviews. Still, if you can get a ST-70 for cheap, it's a VERY good unit too, just not as visually appealing and harder to outfit. The HF-81, as said in other threads, is a Williamson based design with a full triode front end and twin 6CA4 tube rectifiers with two EL-84 per channel for a total of 15w of tube power that will absolutely stun that Yamaha CR series, a series I also happen to own (Yamaha Natural Sound CR-800). There is really no comparison. There are other tube options and if you dont want to mess with a soldering iron or voltmeter at any cost, then it might be advised to buy new, even though you would be hard pressed to find an equal at anywhere near the price. What makes the 81 different then the other vintage integrateds? There is the uncanny openness to the sound with amazing air and space between the instruments, something I have not heard to this level even on VERY good HI-END amps. The amp really grooves and at the same time, firing on all cylinders, and with good NOS, it more life-like than far more costly vintage or new units. It can truly be an amazing piece, but a piece that some cant grasp as I think in some ways you have to have a system that surpasses it to see what it can do. It has a certain single-ended triode quality to the presentation that is quite unique while never losing the GROOVE factor. Alas, you would think I should give up on it for the grief I sometimes get. But I listened to my original unit the other day and, once again, was just amazed at the quality of sound I was getting from this bucket-O-parts with a few coats of paint and a good polish (not to mention some internal tweaks). 70s solid state? There is literally no comparison. I would choose it over a good many $$$ modern tube amps as well, including some well considered separates. kh Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-14-2002 at 12:41 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2002 Author Share Posted July 14, 2002 Personally, I can't wait until you get your hands on the Joplin. I have a gut feeling about that amp.f> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfz28 Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Hey moble homeless, how is this st-70 intergraded tube amp, is it a good one? How does it compare to the hf-81? Man I could have a tube amp and preamp all in one on my budget this would be great. How would this st-70 sound with my k-horns? Right now I am using a old sansui g-7700 reciever 120 watts per channell. I would love to go to tubes sometime down the road but would love to get buy on about 600 bucks, can it be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Indeed it can. See my post above this one. 600 will buy you all sorts of options. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-14-2002 at 10:37 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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