Turn Table Question

[ryanm84]

I hadn't noticed before, but in between tracks, I hear the needle dragging across the record. My question is this, how much noise (which I equate to actual drag) should one hear during playback? I would assume nearly none, but this is a physical needle to groove thing. Thanks for thoughts on this dumb question.

[USNRET]

I found this

www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23301

[ryanm84]

I'm checking that link out.

Odd thing is the sound isn't the same between records. Almost nothing on some and then on a few, it sounds like the stylus is just scraping across the record surface.

I have one microgroove album and the stylus played for a bit on the first song and then just skated across the record!

I've sent the anti-skate, counterbalance, and lateral balance according to the owners manual. Before I adjusted the counterweight, you could walk across the room and get the player to skip (old house with bouncy floors). Doesn't happen now after adjustment.

[LarryC]

It sounds like you're describing the "tearing" or zipper-like sounds of a needle skating ACROSS THE GROOVES, rather than the record scratch types of sounds that come from WITHIN the grooves, which I think is what USNRET's link (www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23301) is dealing with. That almost scary sound of skating across the grooves is something to be avoided, as it will lead permanent damage that can be heard forever as a regular ticking sound from that point on.

I think you should stop playing good records until you solve that problem, or you'll ruin individual records in your collection. If you can't solve the problem easily and soon, it's time to get a new record player!

I suggest you investigate the following:

1. Non-level turntable, where gravity is pulling the heavier tonearm head to one side. This is the first thing to check!
2. Anti-skating out of whack, pulling the arm very strongly to one side.
3. Sticking tonearm bearings -- feel for how freely the tonearm swings from side to side. If the tonearm is defective in this way, it is probably most advisable to replace it! You can't lubricate it out of trouble!
4. Check the clearance between the tonearm lift and tonearm!!! The tonearm lift height can be adjusted, and if it is too high, it will start to lift the cart out of the groove, making it too light to stay in there. There must be visible clearance throughout the full range of tonearm swing!

Others should chime in with ideas as they think of them. But I think this is a serious problem until it's fixed. Good luck!

Edited April 26, 2014 by LarryC

[ryanm84]

Larry thanks for the input.

I don't know if it is skating across the grooves it just sounded heavy thru the grooves on a particular record. The music was not affected as in you could hear it transfer to the speakers. It was more of a heavy tone arm/ cartridge dragging thru the grooves.

And one record was noticeable while others weren't.

I played at low volumes as there were napping kids today and in between tracks I didn't notice anything until a particular record played.

We may be talking the same thing here but as with most sound or noise, it can be hard to describe without hearing it for oneself.

[ryanm84]

I have a pioneer pl-45d table. The anti skate is currently set just past 1 on a 0-4 dial. The lateral counterbalance is set to the manual stated 10-15mm from the shaft end. Anti skate per the manual is to match the counter balance. It is.

I do believe that the table is level but need to confirm. I don't think it is too far off but can make minor adjustments.

Tone arm doesn't seem sticky.

Will look at tone arm clearance too.

[LarryC]

Larry thanks for the input.

I don't know if it is skating across the grooves it just sounded heavy thru the grooves on a particular record. The music was not affected as in you could hear it transfer to the speakers. It was more of a heavy tone arm/ cartridge dragging thru the grooves.

And one record was noticeable while others weren't.

I played at low volumes as there were napping kids today and in between tracks I didn't notice anything until a particular record played.

Well, it certainly doesn't sound like skating across the grooves, although it's important to distinguish between those two kinds of sounds.

We may be talking the same thing here but as with most sound or noise, it can be hard to describe without hearing it for oneself.

• Like This

I have a pioneer pl-45d table. The anti skate is currently set just past 1 on a 0-4 dial. The lateral counterbalance is set to the manual stated 10-15mm from the shaft end. Anti skate per the manual is to match the counter balance. It is. I do believe that the table is level but need to confirm. I don't think it is too far off but can make minor adjustments. Tone arm doesn't seem sticky. Will look at tone arm clearance too.

It's CRITICAL to level the table! Buy one of those 6" bubble levels at a hardware store and check in both perpendicular directions on both the plinth and the platter. Also critical is the stylus force -- it could be way too heavy. Get a Shure gauge ($25) -- it's close enough.

Edited April 27, 2014 by LarryC

[Schu]

you can not set counter balance by messurement of distance in terms of how far it is on the shaft. it needs to be set up by using balance.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Schu

[ryanm84]

Lateral counterbalance is set by distance according the the manual. The counterbalance no. Horizontal balance.

[Schu]

what is the difference between counter balance and "lateral" counter balance as it relates to horizontal balance then?

[Schu]

is this it?

Edited April 27, 2014 by Schu

[ryanm84]

Yes that is it

[ryanm84]

what is the difference between counter balance and "lateral" counter balance as it relates to horizontal balance then?

Swing left and right? I actually don't understand it's function. I think I understand the counterbalance better.

[Schu]

yeah... that extra axis for weight/counterweight seems overly complicated.

if i think about it a little, that lateral counter balance MIGHT HELP in terms of damping when it comes to antiskating... perhaps that is it's function.

one thing I might ask is... did you counter weight with that lateral balance already in it's specified spot? if not, that can change counter balance values.... just something simple that came to mind.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Schu

[ryanm84]

I think so. I've had the table for a year and that is the order right from the manual. Lateral first then counter.

[Schu]

Is your cartridge cantilever healthy and suspended normally?

Even something as simple as needle build up will cause that scraping sound, and it will go away when clean again.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Schu

[LarryC]

Is your cartridge cantilever healthy and suspended normally?

Oh my, I forgot to ask about the cart -- what kind and model no. Schu identifies a crucial element in whether the cantilever (the tiny shaft that holds the stylus tip at the end) is OK. If something has bent it, then by all means get rid of it and don't play any more records. I have usually judged whether the cart and cantilever has a problem by the sound, not by looking at it!

The cart is critical for determining the quality of your LP playback. Dave Mallette recently went through a winnowing process to select the best cart in the simpler MM (moving magnet) world, and came up with an outstanding Ortofon by all accounts, at about $500 (after all, they last decades as a rule). Ortofon makes fine carts in all spec ranges and prices, in case you need to make a change.

All that assumes you have a standard mounting and can change carts.

Looking all this over, I am most suspicious of your cartridge. A bad one can sound terrible and wear your records quickly. Hope this helps. Sorry I didn't think of this aspect before.

[ryanm84]

It's a shure M95ED cartridge. The sound of playback sounds fine. Playing different albums all day yesterday I noticed no decrease in music sound quality. Just the slight dragging sound of the stylus on one album in particular.

[kevinmi]

Many times the noise is in the actual pressing, and nothing is wrong with your set-up. i have 2 systems set up with turntables, so if I find a noisy record, I'll put it on the other system to see if the noise goes away. In most cases it is in the pressing itself.

[ryanm84]

I do have a second table somewhere. I could try that too.