Deang Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Derrick, Dennis never said clipping didn't cause driver damage, he said clipping in and of itself didn't cause driver damage. "Excess average power", with or without clipping, will cause failures due to heat. The idea that not enough power is more dangerous than too much power doesn't make sense to me anymore. If "excess average power" is the leading cause of driver failure, then adding an extra hundred watts simply increases "average power", which also increases the potential for "excess average power", which increases the chance for driver failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Dennis identified his source -- attached. I can't find Derrick's. RaneNote128.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Dean: It's not the power it's the guy with his hand on the volume control. Big amps don't blow up speakers people who don't think don't care can't tell or are half deaf or drunk who blow up speakers. Clean power does not generate sustained heat but constant distortion does. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I agree with the former, but not the latter. That's the whole point of this discussion and the conclusion of the matter -- read the Rane document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Dean, post # 35 has my link citation. At this point I think the tread has met it's goal: tweeter damage is multifactorial. The paper from St. Andrews University is well written and supported by the various mathematical models in the paper. In general, therefore, it seems quite plausible to assume that damage may sometimes occur due to any one of the following mechanisms, or various combination of them: HF creation by clipping of the LF. Rise in the HF level of the original signal which – although limited by clipping by an amount similar to that which occurs at LF – rises to a high level. Leakage of LF power. Non-themal effects due to an increase in the peak displacement or accelerations. The main conclusion is that there is no obvious reason indicated by the analysis why we should either rule out any of the above factors entirely, or to assume that only one of them is always (or usually) a sole or primary cause. Which is in practice a more common cause, or whether they tend usually to act together, would be hard to say without more information on typical systems and musical waveforms in order to do a relevant statistical analysis, etc.http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/clipping/page6.html If we can all agree with the conclusion of this paper, there is not much further discussion warranted. One of the benefit of being on the Klipsch froum is the sharing of knowledge and experience. Edited May 17, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 "Clean power does not generate sustained heat but constant distortion does." BS It's simple, if you drive an amplifier hard into clipping on dynamic program material the extra power during the brief time the amplifier is clipping is TRIVIAL(see the Rane note), what is not trivial is the extra power during the un-clipped portion of the program material. Rane wants to sell you a limiter which will keep you from driving your amplifier into clipping, but this will not stop the tweeter failures as the increase in long-term average power is what destroys the tweeter, NOT THE CLIPPING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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