derrickdj1 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Thanks Scrappydue and CECAA850 for the info on using a larger board to mount the transducer, It is more forceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 Running six of the shakers, the 250 w amp shut down and the 100 w little amp was fine. The 250 w amp has 4 shakers and the 100 w has 2 shakers on it. I have come to conclude that the impedance load on the 250 w amp is the problem. The amps were shipped back to Parts Express and they will replace them with an I Nuke 1000 DSP. These amps don't overheat and shut down in my experience. I want to feel like this guy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ady5fjbbMgI&feature=youtu.be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I have come to conclude that the impedance load on the 250 w amp is the problem. Did you wire them for 8 Ohms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Using 4 shakers, I had them wired in a combination of series / parallel to a 4 ohm load. The amp with 2 shakers is wired in series to give an 8 ohm load. Both amp are suppose to be able to handle a 4 ohm load. I really wanted the I Nuke amp anyway. The Shakers were in a kit that came with the Dayton amps. Once I get the I Nuke DSP amp, I will run the shakers out of the BDP LFE output. This will keep it out of the avr bass management scheme and may offer some better options to integrate the shakers better into the system, This may not be necessary since the Pioneer does nothing to the sub below 63 Hz. This would be a major consideration in an Auddysee system with sub EQ. Edited November 5, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I would thing out if the bdp LFE you will have no volume control with your avr of them. And also I'm about to get into these as parts express is having a sale on them right now. Soon my friend. Soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) I can adjust the speaker volume on the BDP for the analog connections -6 to +6.. The Aura pros are not as strong as the better Clark, Crowson or Buttkicker transducers. I miss having them setup already since I am waiting on the new amp. I have the subs boosted in the I Nuke under 63 Hz, so turning up the volume also puts more demand on the shakers. The bottom line is I want everything to be able to play at reference for an entire movie without shutting down. These shakers did not cut out with every movie but, if there is a lot of prolong bass scenes, then they might cut off. If there is a sale on them at Parts Express I would not hesitate to tell someone to give them a try. I have just not had good results with Dayton amp and love the I Nukes. Five I Nukes is getting a little rediculous, lol. Edited November 6, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Well, Parts Express sent the wrong amp yesterday. They sent the I Nuke 1000 without the DSP, lol. They recieved it back at there company this am. That was fast since I shipped it yesterday afternoon after I opened the box. I am now getting an I Nuke 3000 DSP that should be here tomorrow. For $79 more, I figured this can always be a backup amp and who knows if I will get more subs. Even though I made a vow to not get anymore subs. I may fall off the sub wagon, lol. Edited November 13, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I got the I Nuke yesterday and thought it would be plug N play. Did not happen that way. After around 4 hours of testing everything I found the new 1/4 in. TRS /RCA connectors were defective. I got new TRS connectors and Bam! No vibrations or activity out of the shakers. I took down all the connection and remove the wires to check their integrity. Not finding a problem, I cut a couple of inches off all the wires and and re-connected every thing in combinations of series and series/parallel wiring to finish up the trouble shooting. SHAZAM! Good vibrations are back. The DSP allows for time delay, bass boost, XO, gain adjustment at specific frequencies and a few other things. Now time to play around to figure out the optimum settings. So far, I am impressed with the Aura shakers. They have good output down to around 13-15 Hz. Edited November 17, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Gotta love troubleshooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Trouble shooting is a pain in the gluteus maximus, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) Here are a few caveats for anyone else that may use the Aura Shakers with an I Nuke. 1.) Set the ohm load 2.) Set the watts to RMS level of the transducer for the channels in Dual mono if using both ch A and ch B 3.) Test with polarity at 0 and 180 without and with subwoofers for max output 4.) Use a vibration meter (apps for Android phones) 5.) Start test at -10 and and run test tones 10-50 Hz . The amp may cut off if the load is to high. Set the amp gain at 50% or halfway 6.) if the ch A and ch B output is not the same, adjust the weak or strong ch by increasing or decreasing the gain 2 db. Retest and watch amp meter and GUI display for clipping. This should get you close to max performance and able to go to reference.(I did not try any bass boost to the subs since there is no need with the shakers running. Step 3 is important because there can be some cancellation between the shakers and subs. Always monitor the GUI screen on the computer for added safety. Do not exceed RMS wattage which will result in compression, less vibration and may damage the transducer/amp. Edited December 2, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Still fine tuning the system. Here is a vibration meter graph of the six transducers at five above reference: Edited December 2, 2014 by derrickdj1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) I added two more transducer since I want four per channel. The amp seems to behave better with four. Less clipping even though limiters are set. I also have employed a HPF at 20 Hz and 6 db gain across the board. This appears to stress the amp and transducer less since the shakers are not actively trying to feed the lower frequencies. There is no loss of tactile in the 15-20 Hz band. This also allows for use under reference conditions. I think not using the HPF was the reason I was having amp shut down since the transducer were trying to do 10 and 11Hz that it was not very capable of doing without a high impedance. Just a guess. Edited December 16, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Physical Now mount and bolt them to a solid object such as you floor of couch. Loose unmounted transducers will do a poor job at transferring energy and it is likely that they will buzz or rattle unless securely fastened. Ideally having a digital delay to compensate for the difference of distance between you subwoofer and tactile transducers would be ideal. Remember that sound travels at about 1 foot per millisecond so if the tactile transducers are mounted in your couch and your subwoofers are 20 feet away then the transducers will be firing about 20ms to early, this interaction could do strange things to the room modes and the flatness of the overall bass frequency response could suffer. But then on the other hand because of the high Q-ness of some transducer, they tend to ring (oscillate after the driving force is removed), so firing a little early will actually help things by having them damp down (stop ringing) a little earlier. Remember installing transducers is both art and science taken from this page: http://www.baudline.com/erik/bass/tactile_faq.html I have 4 of the Aura Pro shakers on a reclining loveseat. They are mounted push pull on 3/4" plywood with 4 through bolts per pair, then wired into 2 8 ohm pairs, then paralleled for a single 4 ohm load. They are driven off of an Inuke 3000DSP, and I spent an entire evening on the setup of them. I have a lot of EQ on them to bring up the bottom end, they have a large peak at 42 hz. I also have dynamic eq on them to bump up the level at lower levels. Once the signal going into the amp passes a threshold, the gain is reduced. I recommend some sort of DSP, as I also had to account for the 23 msec delay from the main subwoofer at the screen to the loveseat. The amount of DSP used in the amplifer will determine the latency as well ( it changes slightly ) so it's a trial and error process to find what works best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Hi Michael, I tired PEQ but, like this setup better using my Pioneer Elite avr: under tab 1 (configuration) set the ohm and watt load, under tab 2 (filters) hpf at 20 Hz and 48 db Butterworth slope lpf at 45 Hz and 48 db Butterworth slope. Set the gain for ch A and ch B 3-6 db. I use PEQ for a short while but, found this to be simpler and achieve the same goal. There is a guide for using PEQ with the Aura Pro's on the net. In my experience, trying to squeeze sub 20 Hz was not the best option due to shut down of the amp when not using the hpf with some movies. Setting a delay if needed will help things sync. I don't worry about the peak in the 45 Hz region. There are a lot of guys on AVS with Buttkicker and Crowson transducers using a hpf at 20 Hz, even though the transducer are rated down to 5 Hz. Most report no difference in tactile sensation. Having the shakers flat like the subs is not that important since the Aura Pro is not audible like the Clark's and that region provides a lot of shake. There is definitely more than one way to setup the shakers. One nice thing with the Pioneer is autocalibration does not touch the shakers or I Nuke DSP as with Auddysee. I know some people use the sub out on the Oppo BD to keep Auddysee out of the chain. How do you like your Aura Pro shakers? Is there plenty vibration for you? I get a hella lot with movies and am very happy I added the shakers to the system. The way I have them with the Pioneer, I never have to touch the I Nuke amp, even at reference level with movies like War of The Worlds or Olympus Has Fallen. Edited January 16, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Suggested PEQ for the Aura Pro for interested parties: I want to EQ my tactile transducers. How do I set the EQ? The idea is to correct the resonance peak. Other things such as room modes and couch/floor modes play a big part too. The correct way to setup an EQ for tactile transducer is to play flat pink noise through them and measure the frequency response with some sort of spectrum analyzer. This way the EQ adjustments you make are customized to your specific setup. As a starting point or a crude guide for those without spectrum analyzers here are some sample parametric and third octave EQ curves that are applicable to the RBH and Aura Bass Shakers. Third octave EQ (1 channel and 2 channel serial) curve 25Hz 31Hz 40Hz 50Hz 62Hz 80Hz notes EQ1 (dB) +12 +12 -12 -12 +12 +4 gets rid of slowness but not yet flat EQ2 (dB) +20 +24 -24 -24 +18 +6 extreme EQ, can cause low frequency excursion problems Parametric EQ dB Hz Q +9 20 1.0 -6 24 .4 -13 45 .4 -15 45 .4 -3 90 .6 http://www.baudline.com/erik/bass/tactile_faq.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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