Help picking out sub!!

[Fordman]

Im in the market for a new sub.I currently have a Velodyne CHT-12 and its ok.A little boomy for my taste.I have 1000.00 to spend and heres a list of some that I liked.Tell me what you think.

1. JBL 12" 400 rms 699.00

2. Def. Tech. 15TL 500 rms 699.00

3. Klipsch KSW 15 265 rms 588.00

4. Sunfire Junior 995.00 I didnt get to hear this one because it was broke.

I like really deep bass.I use my system 99% of the time for movies.I have a pretty big room with high ceilings.Let me know what you guys think.

This message has been edited by Fordman on 08-17-2002 at 05:17 PM

[jonesey]

Try out the VTF-3 from Hsu Research. You will love it. www.hsuresearch.com

[TheEAR]

"I like really deep bass." AH HA

This ELIMINATES all the four choices,as none can provide deep bass below 25 Hz with good output.Dont be fooled by the Definitive woofer size,it does not perform like a 15".The Junior is a good sub but below 25Hz its...silent,damn its a 9" cube damn,it has its limits.LOL

As pointed above check the HSU VTF3 and also dont overlook the SVS CS and CS-Plus.These subs reach the depths and perform better.

No dont listen to HornED he will jump in and say SVS Ultra...Ultra.Sure it rips down low...but its a bit more expensive.

I say Sunfire Signature...Signature.Sure its a 13" cube on steroids but then again its over budget.

HSU VTF3 or SVS CS(SC-Plus),SVS now has amplified subs!

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Dustin B]

Don't forget the SVS PC+ will hopefully be available by the end of this month. If you like it deep a 16-46PC+ will be $800.

And if you have some tools and the idea of building your own sub enclosure appeals do you. It's possible to build an excellent (output, extension and sound quality) sub for half that budget.

[Colin]

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html

This is a great article by Brian Weatherhead! Excellent comparison of the different frequency response and sound of various subs. Each one sounds so different. The charts really paint the differences. Great pictures and descriptions, great use of reference materials. I especially like the shake values that he uses to score each active mid or deep-bass woofer.

Most of the subs taper off near 100 Hz, so each one is what I would call a mid or deep bass woofer - they leave the upper-bass area, from 100 to about 200 or 250 Hz alone. Only the Velodyne extends both deep (below 18 Hz.) and high (above 120 Hz.) The Velodyne HGS-18 classic is twice as loud from 56 Hz and up than most of the others, plus it has higher output above 120 than all of the others, yet it extends down to 13 Hz.

It is amazing how deep and loud the SVS CS-Ultra is below 50 Hz and how flat it is above that level. This unit should be the U-571 crowd pleaser. This makes the market leader well suited for both mid-bass and deep bass applications. Surprisingly, the mighty Klipsch RSW15 is more of a mid-bass woofer with a peak at 104 Hz. But this is where the music is. After playing around with my subs and an EQ, I can say that extending the bass all the way down to 20Hz doesn't do as much as having something powerful in reserve to punch out the middle bass. Where I once preferred the SVS tubes because they dug down deep, I now prefer the punchy mid-bass woofers.

The flattest response among the selection is from the Klipsch KSW15. From about 30 to 104 Hz, therefore the reviewer has the most tepid remarks for KSW15. Yet, this should make the lowest cost sub in the review the closest to the ideal for music reproductions on many moderate speaker systems. Big old horns would be better matched to the deep and loud output of the dual SVS tubes.

The interesting shake value figure reflects output above 20 Hz, with every 10 dB above that frequency adding another shake value point. It's an easy gauge for how the sub will rock your boat. Using the shake value as the sole performance figure, the price/performance ratio favors the Klipsch KSW15 by a long shot. For a list price of $749, and a street value much less than that, you get an awful lot of sub shaking for the money.

The next best deal is the SVS CS-Ultra, at three times the price and almost triple the shake value of the Klipsch KSW15, you get some deep bad *** bass. Bass this low flows throughout the whole house and definitely lowers the Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF) for your hobby. The Atlantic, RSW15 and then the Velodyne follow in price/performance. The versatile and powerful Velodyne is four times the price of the KSW15 with about 3 times the shake value. By far, the worse price/performance ratio is the Canton AS 300. For almost three times the price of the KSW15, you get about 1/2 the shake value!

I think we are missing some important points here. Not only is there a big difference in the purchase price of the subs, but there is also a significant in the shape of their frequency responses. Although the RSW, CS-Ultra and HGS18 are all Brian's choices, each one sounds quite different.

It is no wonder the RSW sounds best for music with its punchy mid-bass peak. Although it reaches down at 30 Hz, it doesnt do it any where near as well as the CS tubes. (And who really cares what the CS tubes look like, when the lights are out, nobody sees them. If they rumble as deep as semi-truck, no will care what they look like..except the wife.)

The sub-woofer leader Velodyne is $1195 more expensive than the Klipsch. And if you do not think that is important, let me tell you, Klipsch knows how important it is. This is 60% more than the RSW.

Just as important, the CS-Ultra is not only priced in the middle of these two, but it is the ONLY sub to significantly increase output below 56 Hz. This is want we want for flat musical response. The CS is the only sub with both a relatively flat response above 50 Hz and an increase in output level below that. In other words, the CS is the only deep bass sub-woofer in the pack.

It is also the only sub in Brian's charts that can match the full range output of full-range, high efficiency horns. I am not sure how the differences in their amplifiers was equalized, but if you are listening to music at the 110 dB he shows on his chart, only the CS will have the increase in 29 Hz output that tells you a sub is on line. It is the sub that has the most output below 40 Hz. At normal listening levels, only the CS will have the 10-dB increase necessary to give you the idea that there is some low bass material present. This is where big old horns need their low-end assist.

The best deep-bass sub-woofer in this pack to match with Cornwalls and other big old horns? The SVS CS-Ultra.

Tom Brennan suggests buying a 4648A-8 double 15" woofer bassbin from the tentsale at www.jblpro.com. This will cost $220, shipping included. This is a deal, the drivers alone in the 4648 retail for $600 when discounted. Buy a subwoofer plate amp at www.partsexpress.com Use the JBL, powered by the plate-amp, from 70 or 80 cycles on down, place it along a wall or in corner for flat bass down to 35 cycles. Total cost will be under $500 and you'll get dance-club punch and hit and the ability to keep steady with the dynamic range, high output and low distortion of your big old horns. VERY few subs at any price will outperform the above combination.

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Colin's Music System Ak-2 Khorns & Klipsch subs; lights out, tubes glowing & smile beaming!

[boa12]

"This unit should be the U-571 crowd pleaser."

great qualifier. :biggrin nice post too. hope you don't get too much flack though. for audio, subs seem to be the machismo focal point.

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