tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) I started a thread bit week or so ago about what equipment to use if I wanted to go active. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/162185-going-active-equipment-advice-needed/ Thanks to forum member Claude I am now the owner of an Ashly Protea 3.24CL unit. So now that I have landed the hardware, how to proceed? The Ashly has three in and 6 out, which is not nearly enough for my full 7.2 system but enough to get started and play around with things. My main goal is time alignment. As I see it there are two ways I can proceed, either using the unit to control 3 way my left and right speakers, or to go hybrid and control 2 way the front three channels. By going hybrid I mean using the active crossover to control the L-C-R bass bins (3 of the 6 outputs on the Protea), and use the remaining three outputs the control the combined mids and tweeters of the three speakers. So for the combined mid/tweeter I would have the Protea output going to an amp which would then go to a passive network that would divide the appropriate signal to either the mid or tweet. Will this work? Do I need to modify the passive crossover in any way or is not having the woofer tap hooked up good enough? I don't feel the need for much time alignment with the mid and tweeter horns, I have physically aligned the drivers pretty closely. Edited March 1, 2016 by tromprof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Do you have something like REW, TrueRTA, Clio, or ARTA, etc., and a calibration microphone with phantom power? If not, what firmware (Audyssey MultiEQ Pro, Audyssey MultiEQ XT32, Audyssey MultiEQ XT, , YPAO, etc.) do you use? As far as not needing the tweeters and midranges time aligned...do you also need to correct any frequency response for those channels or do any fast power limiting to tweeters, etc.? How many amplifier channels do you have, and how many of them do you regard as "high quality amplifier channels", if any? For instance, I have 10 channels in use (two strapped sub amplifiers), with two channels that are "high quality" (i.e., First Watt F3). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 So for the combined mid/tweeter I would have the Protea output going to an amp which would then go to a passive network that would divide the appropriate signal to either the mid or tweet. Will this work? Do I need to modify the passive crossover in any way or is not having the woofer tap hooked up good enough? With three outputs total, that's what I'd recommend--without modifying the crossovers, and you said that the tweeter and midrange are physically time-aligned--which will work. Since there are only three outputs, then you'll not be able to time align more than one loudspeaker (1-in, 2-out, with an extra input and output not used). You can use the EQ functions on three front channels, without time alignment. You can use this on a center channel to to tri-amp, alternatively. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Do you have something like REW, TrueRTA, Clio, or ARTA, etc., and a calibration microphone with phantom power? If not, what firmware (Audyssey MultiEQ Pro, Audyssey MultiEQ XT32, Audyssey MultiEQ XT, , YPAO, etc.) do you use? As far as not needing the tweeters and midranges time aligned...do you also need to correct any frequency response for those channels or do any fast power limiting to tweeters, etc.? How many amplifier channels do you have, and how many of them do you regard as "high quality amplifier channels", if any? For instance, I have 10 channels in use (two strapped sub amplifiers), with two channels that are "high quality" (i.e., First Watt F3). Chris I will be using a Pioneer AVR with MCACC advanced for EQ. My plan is to use my Crown PS200 for two of the bass bins and Crown D75A amps (I now have 3 of them) for the mid/tweeter combos and center bass bin. So for the combined mid/tweeter I would have the Protea output going to an amp which would then go to a passive network that would divide the appropriate signal to either the mid or tweet. Will this work? Do I need to modify the passive crossover in any way or is not having the woofer tap hooked up good enough? With three outputs total, that's what I'd recommend--without modifying the crossovers, and you said that the tweeter and midrange are physically time-aligned--which will work. Since there are only three outputs, then you'll not be able to time align more than one loudspeaker (1-in, 2-out, with an extra input and output not used). You can use the EQ functions on three front channels, without time alignment. You can use this on a center channel to to tri-amp, alternatively. Chris I am not sure I am following this. Are you saying the Ashly cannot delay each out separately? It was my understanding that each of the 6 outputs could be individually delayed to differing times if needed. Edited March 1, 2016 by tromprof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Sorry - I was reading an erroneous web source that said the 3.24CL was 3-in, 3-out. That crossover will bi-amp 3 channels or triamp two channels. If you've been able to time-align the tweeters with their midranges, then I'd go for bi-amping the three front channels - time-aligning the bass bins to the midrange-tweeter channel. You'll need to pull the leads to the bass bin woofer(s) away from their passive crossovers and direct couple them to the outputs of the amplifiers that are driving them, then use the passives for dividing the tweeters from the midranges. The delays will of course be applied to the tweeter/midrange channels. You can calculate what they should be (length of the bass bin minus the length midrange horn + distance from the midrange horn mouth to the front of the bass bins) in inches. Divide that net distance by 13584 (speed of sound in air at room temperature...in inches/second). Multiply by a thousand to get milliseconds of delay, or multiply by 1 million to get microseconds. Chris Edited March 1, 2016 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) You want to do this x3? Sure, why not? Frequencies shown are of course variable depending on your set up. Edited March 1, 2016 by babadono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yep, that's is exactly what I am proposing. It is going to be a couple of weeks before I can dive in though. I am also going to need a few more cables. Hello Monoprice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I would put a small wattage power resistor of the ohmic value of your woofers that you are removing from your passive crossover on the woofer output of your passive crossover. Did that make sense? But I am pretty anal about these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 After you time-align the bi-amped channel bass bins to the tweeter-midrange channels, then you can run MCACC after you get the front three set up (Ashly+ bi-amping amplifiers). Then you can time align using the calibration microphone in your receiver or AVP to take out of the added delays of the Ashly crossover. Works like a charm--no hand calculations required on that portion of the problem. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 I would put a small wattage power resistor of the ohmic value of your woofers that you are removing from your passive crossover on the woofer output of your passive crossover. Did that make sense? But I am pretty anal about these things. This would be to protect the driver? I think I know what you mean but can you explain a bit further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) This would be to protect the driver? No it would be to make sure there is a load on the passive crossover at the woofer output to protect the crossover. A passive crossover network is just that a "network". Without the load on any section of the "network" it is a different network. Theoretically the active crossover has removed any low frequency energy from entering the mid and hi frequency amplifier and then the passive crossover. But as you are tuning and tinkering with the active crossover you may send low frequency energy through the mid and hi frequency path that is below the low to mid frequency crossover point of your passive crossover. I would just not want that low frequency output energy to not have a load. Like I said I'm pretty anal. Edited March 1, 2016 by babadono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 After you time-align the bi-amped channel bass bins to the tweeter-midrange channels, then you can run MCACC after you get the front three set up (Ashly+ bi-amping amplifiers). Then you can time align using the calibration microphone in your receiver or AVP to take out of the added delays of the Ashly crossover. Works like a charm--no hand calculations required on that portion of the problem. Chris I am also planning on delaying the bass bins to match the F20 subs, though the subs will not be run by the Ashly. Any reason this should not work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 This would be to protect the driver? No it would be to make sure there is a load on the passive crossover at the woofer output to protect the crossover. A passive crossover network is just that a "network". Without the load on any section of the "network" it is a different network. Theoretically the active crossover has removed any low frequency energy from entering the mid and hi frequency amplifier and then the passive crossover. But as you are tuning and tinkering with the active crossover you may send low frequency energy through the mid and hi frequency path that is below the low to mid frequency crossover point of your passive crossover. I would just not want that low frequency output energy to not have a load. Like I said I'm pretty anal. So what exactly would you put in place to absorb this load? I can solder, just need to know what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 None at all. Just run MCACC to time align all channels after you get the Ashly set up bi-amping the three channels: MCACC will take out the slack. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 This would be to protect the driver? No it would be to make sure there is a load on the passive crossover at the woofer output to protect the crossover. A passive crossover network is just that a "network". Without the load on any section of the "network" it is a different network. Theoretically the active crossover has removed any low frequency energy from entering the mid and hi frequency amplifier and then the passive crossover. But as you are tuning and tinkering with the active crossover you may send low frequency energy through the mid and hi frequency path that is below the low to mid frequency crossover point of your passive crossover. I would just not want that low frequency output energy to not have a load. Like I said I'm pretty anal. So what exactly would you put in place to absorb this load? I can solder, just need to know what. Maybe something like this? http://www.parts-express.com/8-ohm-100w-non-inductive-dummy-load-resistor--019-020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Do you know the woofer's nominal loading? 8 ohms? If so then a 5 watt 8 ohm resistor. 4 ohms? Then a 5 watt 4 ohm resistor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 We were posting simultaneously. Yea that would way more than cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I was thinking more like this: http://www.parts-express.com/8-ohm-20w-resistor-wire-wound--017-8. Hard to pay the shipping on $1 part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 I was thinking more like this: http://www.parts-express.com/8-ohm-20w-resistor-wire-wound--017-8. Hard to pay the shipping on $1 part They are 20 min. from me so no problem. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 We were posting simultaneously. Yea that would way more than cover it. So I would put in the woofer out right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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