Streaming vs Playing Songs via HTPC Question

[derrickdj1]

I have a lot of my music in the Cloud with Amazon which is where I purchase a lot of the music.  I download songs to the tablet PC and upload them MyBook Live HTPC where I store the songs for another backup.

 

So, the cloud and HTPC should have exact duplicates.  The cloud streaming has a more live like quality.  What is going on since everything is being played thur the same system.    All of it is feed thru the same BDP and unprocessed to the avr.

[pzannucci]

First off, I would wonder if the Amazon Cloud actually is letting you download and make an exact duplicate of the music.  If it does then it seems like the two different connections run at different speeds and have different amounts of overhead or maybe caching to minimize timing considerations. 

 

You don't say how you are connecting the devices so that's the only thing that seems different.  I do wonder if they are exactly the same.

 

Save them locally on the tablet and see what happens.

Edited April 13, 2016 by pzannucci

[derrickdj1]

The HTPC, MyBook Live is wireless but, connected to the cable modem via ethernet.  The BDP is also wireless but, has and HDMI cable connecting it the the avr.  I am thinking that the Amazon Cloud music music be different.  I need to upload some of my HD music to the cloud and see if the same thing happens.

Edited April 13, 2016 by derrickdj1

[derrickdj1]

I found out that Amazon will store you muisc in the Cloud by using a matching process.  Then they will provide you with a 256 kps file for playback.  These are lossy files but, very high quality.  From my understand if a HD is stored and later needs to be downloaded, it will be 256 kbs.

[pzannucci]

I found out that Amazon will store you muisc in the Cloud by using a matching process.  Then they will provide you with a 256 kps file for playback.  These are lossy files but, very high quality.  From my understand if a HD is stored and later needs to be downloaded, it will be 256 kbs.

Sad.

[AllenTacey]

My question is why insert another item into the music? I am sorry I personally hate clouds. I have four hundred blank cd's two hundred dblank dvd's seven terrabytes of free hard drive space yet have only 15 gigabytes of music. I record using .wav format so I can play it in my 99 Caddy over the 580 watt Bose system. I live in very rural USA so I drive on road made out of dirt and potholes. For both vehicles I use my Ipod 8 gig Nano or cd's each loaded with about 78 road songs. At home I can use my download to cloud or download to disk but I never go to the cloud. So many different items such as security cameras only load to the cloud which they charge for incrimentally. It is much the same with Youtube where yt says load all your music with us so we can insert commercials. So we are to my point why insert your music onto somebodies servers of questionable quality when it won't be long Amazon or whomever is also going to insert commercials? Youtube does it. Kindle does it with books. Why support this notion clouds are good?

[Schu]

Clouds, or ftp's, are good for the reason they were created... ease of access anywhere anytime without a need for transfering physical media.

[pzannucci]

Clouds, or ftp's, are good for the reason they were created... ease of access anywhere anytime without a need for transfering physical media.

Bad part is with a service such as the one Derrickdj1 is referencing, it sounds like others have the chance to make use of your data. Not sure I like that.  Secondly, what you put in, you don't get back out.  If I am storing and paying for high resolution transfers, I think I should get them.  256kbs should not be what I get back if I want to download.

 

Normal off site data repositories give you back what you put in, byte for byte.

 

I'd just go buy a couple of 4tb drives on the cheap, throw them on the net so I can access from anywhere (provided you don't have dialup) and be done - that is provided I had the original high res transfer in the first place.

[derrickdj1]

I have a 3 TB drive that I use for my music files and another computer for multiple backup sources.  I just purchase a lot of music from Amazon since I can't find it at HD Tracks or other HD sources.  When you buy from Amazon they automatically store the file in the cloud for free and you can download the file also.  Their cloud copy sounds really good.  That what got my attention.  It sounds a bit movie lively than the downloaded file on my HTPC.  The 256 files from Amazon use some type of algorithm that makes them very, very, hard to tell from my HD files.  They are good quality.

 

The thing I don't get is I am using the same amp, BDP and speakers without changing any of the settings to listen to both sources.  They should sound the same.

[pzannucci]

Still sounds like the cloud version is different than the what you have stored.  

 

If not, then you need to look at what are the connections and protocols.  Which has a lot of overhead or may cache so you reduce the overhead and is the target playing the file fast enough.

 

If you are doing things wirelessly, you can be introducing a lot of overhead and timing errors, particularly if you are streaming through multiple devices to get to your amp.  Most simple connection is do everything on a very high performance home theater PC connected to your front end, wired with hdmi if needed.

 

I have everything going through one home built i7 3770 system with 32GB and terabytes of storage, streaming, youtube, blue-ray built in, CDs, DVDs (RAW on hard drive), karaoke music, everything through either hdmi or toslink.  Everything sounds very good.  Things can get a little unhappy when I run some of it through wireless but with adequate caching, only if the buffer is empty does it sound bad.

 

By the way, what are you using the BDP in this configuration for, everything going through the wireless connection to the AVR?

[derrickdj1]

The BDP has the apps for Amazon Cloud Music, Pandora, ect.  The BDP then sends things to the avr via HDMI.  The HTPC wirless, sends things to the BDP.  The BDP communicates with the cable modem which is high speed.  Internet averages over 90 + Mbps download and 40 + upload.

[pzannucci]

Ok so the connections are:

  - MyBook Live HTPC >> ethernet cable to wireless router >> BDP accepts wirelessly >> AVR via hdmi

  - Internet >> cable modem >> ethernet cable to wireless router >> BDP  accepts wirelessly >> AVI via hdmi

or

  - Internet >> cable modem ethernet cable to wireless router >> BDP  accepts wired connection >> AVI via hdmi

 

I would assume something is different in the streamed version (type of transfer, compression, etc) and the local version or you have latency due to more overhead using the MyBook.  That would be the typical culprits.  

If you changed to wired, if it isn't already, with the MyBook to the BDP, that might show interesting results.

[derrickdj1]

Option 1 is correct.  Unfortunately the MyBook Live can't be wired to the BDP or AVR.  The difference in sound is due to the streaming most likely.  Both sound good, just different.   Thanks pzannucci for helping me get a better ideal of what is happening.

Edited April 17, 2016 by derrickdj1

[derrickdj1]

All this talk related to the HTPC made me think, I should at least backup everything in the Cloud.  So, I am backing up all the music.  I had a PC crash before and lost a lot data on the HD.  Even the tech people could not get it all back.  This way, I will have three copies of the music.

[pzannucci]

I thought the MyBook and the BDP had an ethernet port?  If they are close enough, go buy a cheap gigabit switch and wire it up.  

 

Your wireless router serves up the addresses via dhcp so you could just use it in a wired capacity if close enough and if it's not an eyesore.

 

And yes, back them up multiple times.  I have a ton of concert DVDs and I have them ripped in raw across several 4TB drives for redundancy.  I've had my share of failures thank you....