Recent Klipsch buys for HT..

[Dabreeze4u]

Hello All,

  I think this is my 1st post here on the Forum. Recently, I got some good deals on Klipsch speakers. I had already owned the KLF C-7 center. So, when the opportunity arose to add Klipsch speaker to complete a 5.1 setup, I jumped on it. I now have Cornwall 2's as fronts and Heresy 2's as surrounds. My room is a combination living room and small dining room. About 33Lx15w with 8' ceiling. My main listening area is the living room which is about 20l x 13w. I had previously been using a pair of Dahlquist 20i's for mains and Walsh Ohm 2's as surrounds. Moved the Dahlquist 20is to a small bedroom 13x14 for 2 channel listening. There I'm driving them with a 300 wpc Emotiva XPA 2 and a Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid Pre.

 Currently, I'm using a Onkyo TX SR 805 receiver and a $99 special Crown X1000 amp thru the Onkyo's front preamp jacks. And using the Onkyo to drive the Heresy surrounds. I also have a SVS PB 10 Sub in the mix. The setup sounds good but not great. Plenty of power, the Onkyo 805 throws out a minimum 130 watts to all channels. Maybe, the Crown amp a additional 50 to 100 watts.I've read on here that Klipsch's perform better with tubes pre and amps. My initial impression is that the horns are a little bright and that tubes would probably smooth them out. Bass could be better. Although, they aren't boomy in any way but they could be more forward in the soundstage. I listen to mostly classic rock, prog, some blues and fusion jazz. Although, I do occasionally enjoy Sinatra and female singers. Eva Cassidy, Dusty Springfield, Patricia Barber etc..

 Question is, How do I get tubes entered into the HT Setup ?  I could move the Transcendent Sound GG Preamp from 2 channel into the HT. The Emotiva XPA 2 alone would handle the Dahlquist 20i's. Then what ? How can I get that tube sound throughout all 5 speakers ? Is their a tube based 5 Channel amp available ? Should I get a 3 Channel amp for front L/C/R ? Where do I start ? Limited budget of say $1000 bucks at the most. Btw, I have a very good pair of Walsh Ohm 2's that I could sell.

 

Larry          

[willland]

Dabreeze4u(Larry),

 

Welcome to the forum.  

 

You have yourself a nice setup.  Give your ears a little time to get used to the Klipsch sound and detail before changing too much.   Tube guys will pop in soon and offer some advice.

 

Just curious, where did you get the CII/HII combo?  Or better yet, where is your location?

 

Bill

[derrickdj1]

Welcome to the forum.  I would also give the speakers a couple of weaks to get use to and to critical listen to a large variety of stuff before changing anything.  A lot can be done with tweaking placement.  Some of us don't aim the tweeter directly at our ears.  Ami them in front of behind the MLP depending on how large a sweetspot is needed.

 

The only 5 channel tube amp I've seen is this one:  Miexing MC 5S

[Dabreeze4u]

Willland,

 

 I got the Cornwalls on Audiogon. The Heresy's from local trusted Craigslist member. I'm in a suburb of Philly. Derrick, room placement is very limited, I have a large bay window on one wall, fireplace on the other. Pretty much limited to one wall in front of listening area. Direct hit, straight on. You guys are right, still going thru the CD library. Just listened to the Live Orchestra version of Renaissance ( Ashes are Burning ). I must say the extended bass solo was very impressive in 2 channel with the Cornwall 2's. Bass was too in the background when listening to Sentimental Reasons with Nelson Riddle Orchestra and Linda Ronstadt. On to listening to Neil Young's, After the Gold Rush. Btw, in multichannel the beach sequence on Saving Private Ryan was a surround treat. So, was Yes's DVD Audio in multi of Fragile. I think, just for the hell of it, I'll do some depth chargers on U571 next. Maybe, the candles will fall of the mantle. I'm very impressed thus far with this setup. Still, looking for Nirvana though. Maybe, tubes will take me one step closer.

[Scrappydue]

I'm betting room treatments would take you one step closer rather than dumping MUCH MORE than a 1000$ in tubes for 5 channels. What's on the floor? Any carpet? You said window on one side and fireplace on the other. Perhaps some very heavy drapes over the window. And perhaps if the reflection point is one either side of the W fireplace a panel there to soak up some highs. 

 

And welcome 

[Dabreeze4u]

Thanks for the kind welcome folks. Scrappy, I do have heavy curtains on the bay window. Plus, two large bookcases around 6 1/2 ft high on either side of fireplace.   

[Scrappydue]

Hmm just trying to think of a way to take the highs a tad over getting in to a pricey tube amp. I just don't think tubes are a good idea with 5.1 as ht power requirements are different than music if that makes sense

[Dabreeze4u]

59 minutes ago, Scrappydue said:

Hmm just trying to think of a way to take the highs a tad over getting in to a pricey tube amp. I just don't think tubes are a good idea with 5.1 as ht power requirements are different than music if that makes sense

Thanks for the input. You might be right, Scrappy. I'm not to up on tubes. All I know is the tube preamp I have is dead quiet and probably is minimized to some extend in my 2 channel setup with the Emotiva XPA 2. As efficient and sensitive as the Klipsch speakers are, I wonder if maybe I should sell the XPA 2 and use the cash towards a Anthem or Acurus  multi channel amp to use in the HT setup. Then use the Onkyo 805 with a decent 2 channel ap with the Dahlquist 20i's in my 14 x 13 room. And, don't forget my Walsh Ohm 2's need a home.

[J M O N]

Here is what I do and it works great! My two-channel system is full tubes.  I augment my 2-channel system with the HT system.  In other words, I have a HT system that simply feeds the front two channels into my two-channel system as another input into my 2-channel preamp.  All other channels are driven by the HT amp (or AVR).  This works best if your 2-channel preamp has a HT bypass, but even if it doesn't you can make it work by simply controlling the volume position.  This allows me to meet my primary goal of integrating a 2-channel system with an HT system with no compromise to the 2-channel system.  I also don't believe there is any compromise to the HT system either despite the fact that the front two-channels go through two preamps (HT preamp to 2-channel preamp).  I have used a 3.5 wpc SET tube amp driving the front channel Klipschorns and even in HT mode, it sounds wonderful.

[Dabreeze4u]

JMon,

 

 So say I have a Pioneer Elite receiver and it has up to 11 preouts. My Transcendent Sound Grounded grid tube preamp I believe doesn't have HT Bypass. I would run my Pioneer Elite's L/R front preouts RCA'S into the TSGG pre's input. Then, as you say the remaining 3 channels would be run by just hooking them up to the Pioneer Elite SC-95. Would this setup calm down the horn tweeters some to produce a more balanced smooth mesh between the high and low ends ? Also, where did you integrate your tube amplifier in to the mix ? And still have HT capabilities ? As you can tell, I'm somewhat naïve to this stuff. Thanks

[J M O N]

Yes, connect your L/R output from the Pioneer to one of the inputs of your TSGG.  Since your TSGG does not have a HT bypass, your signal will go through your TSGG preamp including the volume control which means the front L/R channel volume can be adjusted with the Pioneer or the TSGG.  You don't really want this and is why having a HT bypass is best.  However, you can still make it work without too much trouble.  When setting up the volume settings of all your HT channels, keep you volume setting on the TSGG at one place that you can easily repeat (Say straight up at 12:00).  Then, whenever you want to run HT mod, switch over your TSGG input selector to the input coming from your Pioneer and adjust the volume on the TSGG to the 12:00 position.

 

The tube power amps have not moved from your 2-channel mode set up.  They will be powering your front L/R when in HT mode, same as they have with your 2-channel system.  Sound quality will be similar to what you are getting with your current 2-channel system.

[Dabreeze4u]

Thanks again JMON. Pretty straight forward. What kind of sound would you predict from this setup ? When you say the tube power amps have not moved from 2 channel /HT you do realize that the TSGGP is a preamp the only actual amplifier section is the Pioneer Elite. In your opinion, what would be the best way to have tube sound thru all the speakers ? I'd still need a receiver to power a BluRay player and Tivo Roamio and my DVD Audio/SACD player, right ? What 3.5 watt SET did you use ?

[derrickdj1]

On 8/19/2016 at 11:36 PM, Dabreeze4u said:

JMon,

 

 So say I have a Pioneer Elite receiver and it has up to 11 preouts. My Transcendent Sound Grounded grid tube preamp I believe doesn't have HT Bypass. I would run my Pioneer Elite's L/R front preouts RCA'S into the TSGG pre's input. Then, as you say the remaining 3 channels would be run by just hooking them up to the Pioneer Elite SC-95. Would this setup calm down the horn tweeters some to produce a more balanced smooth mesh between the high and low ends ? Also, where did you integrate your tube amplifier in to the mix ? And still have HT capabilities ? As you can tell, I'm somewhat naïve to this stuff. Thanks

I've used my Pioneer for several years with a tube amp and a SS.  I used a switcher to go back and forth.  If you are finding the highs harsh, try the X curve in the Pioneer.  I don't know if the SC 95 has the feature in audio parameter that will adjust the sound to be more tube like.  It is called D Filter in the SC 99.  It has three settings, short, sharp and slow. If it is still to harsh, you may need to look into some room treatments. 

 

Also, don't aim the tweeter at your ears.  Have the speakers converge several ft. in front or behind you.  This has worked for a lot people with the harhness issue.

[J M O N]

Ok, I didn't realize the Elite was the only amp in your system -- assumed you had a 2-channel amp with the TSGG preamp.  So, the below diagram is what I am suggesting.  The blue boxes are your standard 2-channel setup.  The beige boxes are what you add on to your 2-channel setup to use it in HT mode.  Your 2-channel preamp is already tube so you're set there.  You can use tube amps for every box shown below that indicates it is an amp, although I would not suggest that for the sub (but since you have an SVS with built-in amp, that's not an issue).  If you are only listening to movies in 5.1, I don't believe you need tube amps all around -- not sure you'll see much benefit.  Where you do want tubes is in your front two speakers (mainly for 2-channel), and if wanted/needed, in the center channel.  Tube amps for the surrounds is probably not necessary.

 

Sound quality should be outstanding with this setup.  Cornwalls are among my favorite speakers and you have to go to the Klipschorns to beat them for my tastes.  The SET amps I had in this steup were Wright Sound 3.5 monos.

[Dabreeze4u]

I appreciate all the suggestion folks. I'll give them all a try. JMON, I do have a 2 Channel amp being now used. Unfortunately, I had to send back to Best Buy the Pioneer Elite SC95.It had a defective power source. I'm now back to old reliable Onkyo TX SR805. Really, not much of difference, the amplifier section in the 805 is slamming. I think I'll forego the Elite and stick with the 805. The 2 channel amp is a cheapy the x1000 Crown which now is using the 805 front L/R preouts. I do believe the Onkyo 805 has preouts for up to 7.1 multichannels. Nice diagram JMON that will be helpful. I already am using the L/R Front preouts on the Onkyo for the Crown amp. Where would I put the TSGGP preamp then JMON since the L/R Front preouts are already in use. Btw, should I move the EMOTIVA XPA 2 amp I'm now using along with the TSGG preamp in my 2 channel setup with Dahlquist 20's and use both in the HT setup ? Not having the HT Bypass may present a problem. Also, with all the power going to the front mains 300WPC in 8ohms. Will the soundstage change dramatically. The Onkyo 805 would then be driving about 150WPC to the center and surrounds. Thank You   

[J M O N]

My recommendation was going to be to insert the TSGG between your AVR and the 2-channel amp that goes to your front L/R speakers (see diagram --> "2-channel preamp").  However, I probably need to state why I did things my way which may not meet your objectives.  My primary consideration was 2-channel sound quality.  I wanted to listen to 2-channel music using purely 2-channel equipment designed and optimized for 2-channel music reproduction.  I wanted to be able to add on the HT components using my existing 2-channel system and get the best sound possible in HT-mode without compromising my 2-channel system, while also not having to disconnect and re-connect cables every time I switched between 2-channel and HT modes.  If this is not your same objective, then there may be better ways for you to go. I think I assumed you had similar objectives but may have assumed in error.  If this is a HT system only, then I am probably steering you in the wrong direction.