Poleelop Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 I asked a question about tube amps the other day, and I was given some great advice. I know I want to give them a try, but I'm not sure if I want to give up the "cranking" ability. I can't wait to hear Rachmaninov on my Forte II's with something better than the Kenwood Basic M2A beamoth of a SS amp (which I'm sure that according to this crowd, won't take much) that I had been using, but what am I gonna do when I want to crank up Led Zep 1 to ear bleeding levels? (assuming I don't want to go to one of the four other rooms in the house where I have systems) As I've been reading the threads here on the BBS, I noticed someone mentioned Margules, so as I've done with everything else I've heard about here on this site, I went off to the Margules website to learn more about their stuff. First thing I noticed....besides how awesome their tube amps seem to be....is that I can't afford one. At least not right now. Second thing I noticed was their Hybrid Integrated AMP, the HD-1. Decent power at 75 watts a side, pure class A, SS Amp secion, and a tube pre-amp section. Also, it's gorgeous enough to have some wife appeal, and at $1,700....although a little more than I care to spend, I can afford it. I'll just stop drinking beer until Christmas...I need to drop some weight anyway. Why do I want it? Well, from the description, I'll get great sound now, but I can upgrade later. They make it seem like I could use their SS amp section to drive subs later and use a tube amp through their pre-amp circuitry when I can afford to get a tube amp. I'm thinking, "hey...I can listen to it now, and when I can afford the nice tube amp, I'll already have the pre-amp ready....and for not too many more bones than I've seen some nice tube pre-amps running for. Here's my questions(s) to you guys. I'm thinking that later on down the line, I can use the SS amp section to drive the woofers of my forte II's and use the tube amp that I aquire later to drive the mid and high horns. Surely that's possible, but I'm new to this game. Is it possible? Is it hard? Is there a good chance that I'll screw something up? If not screw something up, is there a good chance that I'll not have the capabilities to do it in a manner where it will sound good? And most importantly, if this is all possible, is it a good idea? Thanks in advance. I'm sure some of you guys have already addressed a question along these lines, but hopefully, this line of questioning will be a little more obscure....obscure enough to facilitate a good discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 If you can seperate the amp section then sure, you can use it later bi-amping. IMO SS on bass and tubes on top can sound very good, that's what I do. It's easy enough to do, just get yourself an active crossover. Run the preamp to the crossover input then from the crossover outputs to the low amp inputs and to the high amp inputs. Set your crosover point and balance with the crossover's level controls. Easy. On the other hand you might like the gizmo as it is or maybe you won't like it at all. Listen before you plunge. www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 I have to say that in all my years, I have never heard a REALLY great tube/solid state hybrid combo package, at least none that equals quality tube gear (I have heard some good examples, but not scaling great heights). I have no doubt that this beats a lot of SS only systems. On the other hand, I think it is not a good compromise, to be honest. I think Manuel finally got a taste of what tubes can do, though. As for tubes CRANKING, there are PLENTY of tube amps that will ROCK your head to a clanging! I posted a few links to some excellent Quicksilver amps coming in around 30-100w depending on what you get. There are a pair of Quicksilver Silver Monos on Audiogon using KT-88 tubes at near 100w that will bring the damn walls down via some Fortes. As for using the preamp section of this amp later, I would really doubt this unit could do justice to most tube preamps. And as you might have seen, the preamp is VERY VERY important in the grand scheme of things. Still, I havent heard this gear. But I have heard a bevy of hybrids and so far, regardless of price, I have found seriouos compromise. Just one more opinion to add to the foray however. kh ps- Tube watts are QUITE different than SS watts. Hell, my Moondog 2A3 amps have more balls than my 200w B&K M200 Monoblocks in some ways. 90w of PP KT-88 tube power is very impressive. As in guitar amps, tube amps RULE in the areas of TONE and guts. There is no comparison in this area. While SS amps can have a more vice-like lock on the bottom, the good tube amps have better pitch and tone in the bass. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-07-2002 at 03:43 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Man, some of these posts remind me of me about a year ago. "Power! Power! I need POWER!" You get so paranoid about power that you forget the purpose of all this obtaining the best sound. The BEST sound is no Solid State. No solid state amp, and definitely no solid state preamp. You can do what Tom Brennan thing, but you need to know what you are doing. I once put a Solid State B&K 4420 on my woofers and an Anthem Ultralinear EL-34 based tube amp on my tweeters, using the passive crossovers of the speakers. I thought it sounded like shite. You are in a difficult position. You want to make a move up -- but don't want to lose some of the things you know you like about the sound of your Fortes. The first thing you must do is forget 90% of everything you ever learned about audio, and especially the "watts" bit -- just let it all go. This 2-channel forum is predominately made up of folks who run tube gear. Mobile came on here a year or so ago and converted the whole damn herd. Now listen up. We only want to know a few things, then -- we are going to tell you what to buy. You are going to buy it -- and be happy 1) How much money is in your budget? Exactly. What are you willing to spend? 2) How big is your room? 3) How far away do you sit from your speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Poleelop, I strongly suggest to contact Julian Margules. He will explain to you better than no one what his products are able to do. For what I read in the info of his site you will be prepared for easy upgrades: quote: In some instances, the owner of an HD-1 may want to upgrade their system by adding a high quality tube amplifier. In this instance, the internal power amplifiers of the HD-1 can still be used in conjunction with either the preamplifier section or an external remote unit such as a dolby/AC3 processor, multi-room control device, active crossover for subwoofers or other add-on components. This gives the owner the ability to drive another set of full range speakers in another room, rear surround speakers, or subwoofers as well as any number of configurations one can think of. It is also possible to effect a power upgrade to a quad power unit that, when connected, will convert the unit from 75W/channel to 220W/channel (using a special Magenta bridging add-on). Oh, and I also think is a beauty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 It is pretty. However, for about the same amount of money he can get the 35 watt AE-25 DJH SuperAmp with oil filled caps, AND the tube rectified AE-3 DJH SuperPreamp off of Audiogon. Ain't no way that hybrid's gonna hang with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleelop Posted September 7, 2002 Author Share Posted September 7, 2002 Hmmmm.... Okay, I'll play along, but don't be offended if I don't put my money where your mouth is. Honestly, I'd like to spend no more than a grand right now, but seeing as how I've already admitted I'll spend $1,700, we'll go with that figure. My listening room....and don't give me **** about this.....is my kitchen. I've already stolen the formal living room for the "media" room. I spent "considerable money" in my wife's eyes wiring it for 7.1 surround (yes, Klipsch), so that room has to stay as it is. The only other room that might work is my office, but I actually think the kitchen might be better. For one, it has nice hard wood floors, and I used to listen to these forte II's in college on hardwood floors, and they were awesome. The room is about 14' wide, and because of windows where they'll be placed, I expect the speakers to be about 8' to 10' feet apart. Don't give me crap about that either. Nothing can be done. There is no other place for them. listening will be done while I'm cooking which will put me about 15' to 20' away, or if I want to do nothing but listen, I can pull up a kitchen chair and be anywhere between 6' to 10' in front of the speakers. Ceilings are about 14' tall in the kitchen, and one side is fairly open into the "great room." What else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 May I recommend a Waring Blender over Hamilton Beach. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleelop Posted September 7, 2002 Author Share Posted September 7, 2002 Have I just been dissed? I'm fine with my cheap Oster as it is, but I'm not a big foo foo drinker, so I don't blend much. My kitchenaid stand mixer on the other hand....that gets a work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Heh.... Hell no. My listening room is my living room, TV room, dining room, and kitchen. It's what loft apartment living is all about! Hell, great food, wine, tubes, and horns, it's the ultimate! I try to mix all four at every opportunity. kh ps- Of course, a view of the ocean and sound doesnt hurt either... This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-07-2002 at 11:21 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 That's cool. Actually, since you are going to be so far from them, 8' feet apart is fine. Just toe them in. Your kitchen is a decent sized room. Also, if you are going to working in the area, doing one hobby (cooking), while enjoying another (music) -- there will be other sounds to contend with. I'm being honest here. Those Fortes with the Heritage midrange horn -- are going to do the best with an all tube system. There is no real reason to not stay within your original spending parameter. $1000 is a lot of money. I think the Jolida is the perfect amp for you. It really is. Tube sound, good power. It's a good amp to use as a baseline. The Jolida's hold their value pretty well, so you can upgrade later if you choose without taking terrible beating (which you most certainly will do if you buy new). Have you ever been out to www.audiogon.com? It's where the rest of us loons shop. Hey, look what I found. Jolida JD502B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Good advice, Dean. Although I would take the 302B, 102B, or even the 202B before the 502B. The 6550 is not the best option in the world. I just think the little 102B would be a neat kitchen amp. Man, the kitchen is inherently a BRIGHT sounding place...with all sorts of inteference as well. I can even imagine how he is going to fit the Fortes in there really.... You surely dont see tube/Klipsch kitchen setups every day! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleelop Posted September 9, 2002 Author Share Posted September 9, 2002 Ok....I can't have the beautiful Margules, but I can have the somewhat homely Jolida. I'm willing to accept that...after all, it's the sound that matters, right? Now...why do I want the Jolida over any of the Antique Sound Labs amps and Integrated amps or the Super Amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Poleelop, What about this one? ACRH-1 Certainly appealing to me. In fact, my next buy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 I'd look at a pair of used Wright Sound WPA 3.5 Mono blocks.($900-$1000).Check out Audiogon.com Check out the Wright WLA12A preamp. Wright-Sound.com I am using the Wright's with an AES A3 preamp. I think its $600 factory built, but I had it modded and it came to about $1100. The 6oclock position on the preamp is dead quite. I sit 11 feet away and I usually have the volume control set at a little over the 9oclock position. When I want to hear music while I'm in the shower I set it to 11oclock. I read somewhere that the first watt is the most important. Also are you listening to CD's or Albums? That will change the price on the preamp selection. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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