Choosing center

[yevsh]

Hi All,

 

I am looking to buy  Klipsch Center speaker and struggle to choose from:

RC-62 II, RC-52 II (couldn't find it in the product list at the klipsch website - did they stop producing it?) and R-25C.

 

What can you recommend?

[Terry Palmer]

No I believe they are discontinued. I do have a RC 25 I would probably sale. I live in the St. Louis area.


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[yevsh]

And I live in Israel, the shipping fee will be higher than the cost of the product itself.

[Youthman]

Welcome to the forums.  What speakers do you have as your mains?

 

the RC62 is a much better speaker than the RC52 but it is best to match the right speaker up with your mains.

[yevsh]

Shelf speakers q acoustics 3020

Receiver Denon-1300W

Sub (on it's way) : SVS PB1000

 

Main usages Movies and games

[Youthman]

Hmmm...not sure any Klipsch speaker will "match" with your fronts.  Likely a completely different sound altogether 

[yevsh]

and why is that?

[Youthman]

Soft dome polyester weave tweeter vs Titanium Linear Travel Suspension horn-loaded tweeter.  Horns sound entirely different than soft dome tweeters

 

Also the crossovers are going to be completely different.

 

Not to mention different driver materials.

[Chris A]

54 minutes ago, yevsh said:

and why is that?

Since this topic is couched in a fair amount of lore, I can share the following about timbre matching of loudspeakers.  When you can consistently pick out a particular loudspeaker that's different among the surrounding 5.1, 7.1., 9.1., etc. when all loudspeakers are playing--particularly the front three loudspeakers--then you have a "timbre mismatch" issue in your surround sound system.  This mismatch is caused by the following differences among the loudspeakers in your array:

 

1) Differences in on-axis frequency response of the loudspeakers, which of course can be corrected if equalization is used intelligently, assuming that the loudspeakers have the same driver/horn capabilities, especially in bass performance

 

2) Differences in overall average loudness on-axis, which can be corrected through channel gain matching

 

3) Differences in distance or time-of-arrival of the loudspeakers' direct sound, which can be corrected via adjustment of AVR or AVP channel digital delays.

 

The above sources of timbre mismatch are all correctable using a good AVR or AVP with room correction software/firmware.  The following sources of timbre mismatch are not correctable using room correction techniques:

 

4) Differences in polar coverage angles for the tweeter, midrange and bass drivers/horns.  This includes surround loudspeakers having "dipole" or "bipole" radiating characteristics, which cannot be matched in timbre to the front loudspeakers due to their differences in acoustic coverage angles vs. frequency.  This especially includes mismatches in crossover polar coverage angles between the drivers in a loudspeaker. 

 

5) Differences in the types and levels of loudspeaker distortion, including harmonic, modulation, compression, phase distortions, and resonances at differing frequencies.

 

If you're going to accept a timbre mismatch in any loudspeaker, my recommendation is to choose a loudspeaker type with more neutral sound characteristics than the others in your surround array.  This usually means a more expensive and larger loudspeaker. 

 

In no cases however would I recommend using different front loudspeakers (left, right) from each other.  These must be matched quite closely in all ways detailed above.

 

Chris

[wvu80]

Chris, assuming L/R are 8 Ohm speakers, can you speak to the issues of a single center speaker that is 4 Ohm vs 8 Ohm?  Most dedicated center speakers I've seen are 4 Ohm.  Obviously if a single out of a pair of 8 Ohm speakers is used, the center will therefore be a 8 Ohm.

[yevsh]

In that case  belive the best option for me would the q acoustic center. 

[Chris A]

11 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Chris, assuming L/R are 8 Ohm speakers, can you speak to the issues of a single center speaker that is 4 Ohm vs 8 Ohm?

If your driving amplifiers on each channel are very low output impedance (i.e., less than ~0.1 ohm) and have sufficient output current capabilities without generation of audible harmonic or transient intermodulation distortion (TIM), and all other factors that I've mentioned above are basically equal, then you shouldn't hear many timbre differences.

 

There are a few concurrent "ifs" listed above, however...not the least of which is equal bass performance.

[wvu80]

5 minutes ago, yevsh said:

In that case  belive the best option for me would the q acoustic center. 

 

The Q Acoustics 3020 is a pair of bookshelf speakers with a 5" woofer, not a single dedicated single.  This does not look like an ideal center, especially when paired with Klipsch speakers.

https://www.amazon.com/Acoustics-Bookshelf-Speaker-American-Anniversary/dp/B01L2SJG7G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1482768132&sr=8-3&keywords=q+acoustics+3020

[yevsh]

You didn't understand i own a pair of 3020 and now need a center 

 

Based on the comments i understood that klipsch's center is not good for me.

[Chris A]

One thing that I haven't mentioned...and is probably the most important concept to understand for surround sound:

 

If you're trying to achieve seamless surround sound performance without being able to pick out individual sources in a surrounding loudspeaker array, the most effective way to do this is to use identical loudspeakers all the way around, symmetrically spaced left-right (just like stereo loudspeakers)...and all at the same height above the floor level (or the centerline of the midrange drivers slightly tilted up toward the back of the array--less than 10 degrees with respect to the front loudspeakers). Wider individual loudspeaker polar coverage horizontally (up to 100 degrees) is preferred by listeners over narrower coverage loudspeakers--in listening rooms with appropriate and large enough dimensions, with appropriate furnishings/treatments to effectively support surround sound arrays.

 

This observation extends to any loudspeaker channel that can ever be used as an independent music channel. (If you're wondering...yes, there are many recordings that use all the surrounding 5 channels independently of each other, and not just "echo channels" at the sides and rear.)

 

This should be intuitively obvious, but a lot of loudspeaker manufacturers' marketing practices tend to obscure this observation, especially practices used for surround loudspeaker types.  Read Toole's book on this subject--chapters 16 and 22.

 

Chris

[wvu80]

13 minutes ago, yevsh said:

You didn't understand i own a pair of 3020 and now need a center 

 

Based on the comments i understood that klipsch's center is not good for me.

You are right, I didn't understand.  Thanks for the clarification.

 

I also agree, the Klipsch center would not be a good match for the 3020's.

+++

 

Yevsh, have you considered the Q MTM speaker?  (Midrange-Tweeter-Midrange) 

https://www.amazon.com/Acoustics-Channel-Speaker-Graphite-Anniversary/dp/B01L0I67GG/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1482770243&sr=8-12&keywords=q+acoustics

 

 

 

 

[yevsh]

I have not, but i did consider 3way...

[wvu80]

14 minutes ago, yevsh said:

I have not, but i did consider 3way...

This is not a 3-way.  It is a two-way meaning it has one high frequency driver (tweeter) and two low frequency drivers (woofers).  The two woofers work as one.  The MTM is what most center speakers look like.

 

This particular one is recommended for any of the 3000 models, according to the Q speaker description.  It features two 100 mm woofers to complement the single 125 mm woofer of each of the 3020's.

[Chris A]

Vertical MTM arrangements are superior in listening trials to horizontal MTM arrangements. 

 

This is a psychoacoustics phenomenon.

 

Chris

[yevsh]

Wvu80

Do you have a specific model in mind?

 

 And By 3way i mean woofer/tweeter/mid