No Disc Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I'm getting very close to having the funds to get my long lusted after Turntable. Vinyl here I come.... Now on to my question... Initially I will be using my Eico phono section for LP listening, until I find a decent phono pre-amp to marry with my AES/Wrights. Right now my Eico has Eletroharmonics 12AX7s, which I've left alone since I have no turntable now. I'm thinking a decent pair of Mullard long plate 12Ax7s would get me by until I can find a pre-anp with the AES/Wrights? I also have a few decent 5751's laying around... Opinions and suggestions please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 First of all, you have to at least make sure the EICO phono section is working well. Unless there was damage during shipping, this can first be accomplished by mailing Pat and asking him about it. If I remember correctly, he had added some caps to the phono section which probably means some attention was paid to it. Whether it is working up to par, who knows. Give Pat a call. The EH 12AX7 will work but surely not as well as good NOS options. SO if you DO have some nice 5751 tubes, give them a shot. Otherwise, I do like the Mullards a lot for phono, even better than Telefunken, which I now am using in my Cary SLP-70 phono stage. I know Telefunken get the big thumbs up and are praised right and left. They do last a long time and a good... but I think they can actually be a bit forward/bright sounding; this is just me and many others lust after them. I like the tube but for some reason in my phono sections, I have preferred others. For a phono stage, keep an eye out for another Wright product that has gotten some good reviews: Wright Phono PP100C Phono Preamp http://www.progressive-engineering.com/klipsch/Listener_wright_phono.pdf Read the above .pdf file (after the Galante speaker article). It has to be rotated btw which can be done via Adobe. It gets a RAVE review in Listener and is relatively cheap, especially if found used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted September 29, 2002 Author Share Posted September 29, 2002 Mobile Thanks for the response, much appreciated. I'm fairly certain Pat told me that this EICOs phono section was working well. I belive he is still in Germany so I'll hold off on the phone call for now. He did make several remarks that he liked the phono section, and I'm sure he meant this units phono. That Wright is definately on my A-List. Whats the scoop with the reviewer suggesting a step-up transformer? You think that would be needed? - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Yeah, I seem to remember him saying the phono section worked as well. I have found them to be the most problematic in the EICO as the dont get much attention and can be a little funky. They nearly always need a bit of work when you buy used. Since Pat redid the amp's section, it is probably fine or at least working. As for the step up transformer, this is really talking about when you use a very low output Moving Coil cartridge. With almost ALL moving magnets as well as HIGH OUTPUT Moving Coils, you wont need a stepup transformer. But the ones he mentioned seemed to work well with thw Wright Sound unit with his MC. Low output moving coil phono stages have much more gain so have to be made to even higher standards to avoid hum and are more expensive on the whole. Also, your TONEARM has to be of a certain quality to deal with low output moving coils. Some dont do a good job here such as most mid-fi tables and even some "ok" arms. The Rega RB-250/300 is a good inexpensive arm that does do pretty well with low output moving coils. A HO moving coil is a good compromise, such as the sumiko Blue Point series. I'm keeping a lookout for tables for you and Robinson. ps- btw, the only liability with the 5751 tubes is they have less gain then the 12AX7 so it might be a problem with some cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted September 30, 2002 Author Share Posted September 30, 2002 Mobile - The AES PH-1 is priced well what do you think about that unit? The specs say its 47k standard impedence for MM carts, that would probably limit my cartrige choices would it not? - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 I dont know. I have never heard the unit. I do know that Mike Lindsey sold his but a lot of that has to do with implementation and running it into a terrible SS integrated. According to Mike, he did prefer the Scott but you dont know how this would be via a system like yours. A lot does depend on the tube choice and wiring/cap choice within. AES have finally released a Super PH-1 unit to match the DJH etc high end version of the Super Amp/AE-3 series. There are plenty of phono options with in the sub 1k range and some choices. I would look for a bit before committing. AGain, I am keeping my eye out as well. Chris Robinson just jumped into the vinyl pit with two feet with a purchase of a MMF-7 at a very good price. He wanted turnkey analog and that fits the bill. Havent heard it but there are also some other great used options. I was working on a mail to you but had gotten side tracked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted September 30, 2002 Author Share Posted September 30, 2002 It seems AES only has the basic info on their site on that phono and not on the other pages... http://audioelectronicsupply.com/products/AEHTML/kits/kit_index.html Yes, lots of options. Got to keep myself focused on the TT though. Chris got a MM7 eh.... Great, can't wait to hear his review.. That is one of the units I'm considering. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 You know, after looking at it a bit more, I do think the "SUPER PH-1" appears to be the same as the regular, based on pic and description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted September 30, 2002 Author Share Posted September 30, 2002 Thats what I was thinking but wasn't sure. Based on the specs, can you form any opinons if the gain will be an issue with mm / mc cartridge choices? - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Well, the PH-1 is definitely just a Moving Magnet and High Output Moving Coil device meaning it does not have enough gain to do low output MC cartridges without the use of a stepup transformer, just like the Wright Sound phono. This is quite common at this price however since it is really more tricky to make a quality MC stage since you are dealing with more hum and noise. BTW, could you get a pic of the interior of your AE-3 DJH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I do wish AES put the power supply on a separate chassis but this is a cost cutting compromise that can be ok if done right. Moving the PS and transformer away from the gain stage helps with hum and background noise. Wish I heard both to do a comparison. That rave for the Wright Sound unit in Listener was attention grabbing, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 Mobile - Yes, those are good points. Outbound PS would be the way to go... I'll get around to the pics of the wright but It won't be till Sunday. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Sorry, I'm a no-life and am at war with my IT department. They won't let me on this site anymore ("shopping"), and they're filtering emails from my ex-wife as "sexual discrimination" Jeez, it's not like she's asking for it. Even Mobile's emails were getting filtered and we were talking about amps. Go figure. I just read this email thread and actually asked (out of the blue) Kelly about the phono section of the HF-81 ... I have Mullard tubes in mine ... The previous owner said it was a little fickle (TBD) so it may need a little shop time to get it right. Anyway, I went with the MMF-7 ; at $780, cartridge included, new, factory-sealed and waranteed, it seemed to be a good step. Used -7's were going for a little more so I figured what the hey. I'm so frikkin' stupid, I don't believe I could set up a used table properly and I have no experts living in the neighborhood (although JCTurboT probably has some experience in this area). Will be a fun table to start out with. I've been replacing all my old vinyl on Ebay and the stuff that's coming in mint/sealed at $4 is unbelievable. Heck of a lot cheaper than CD's, which sound half as good (I'm assuming ). I need to golf more. Snow is coming. Twelve rounds in this year. Shameful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Chris, If you get a chance to get on the BB again and see this post...do you have a source for more new MMF-7's at that price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I dont think Chris OR ole Underwoodwally would mind.... Walter Liederman underwoodwally@aol.com Voice-770-667-5633 fax-1-802-609-1893 He is on Audiogon all the time. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Chris, Congratulations on your new MMF-7. Edster, Should I say..........Welcome to the world of vinyl. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Let me ask this then...I assume the MMF-7 is a pretty good "starter" table? I do have a nearly new MMF-5 that I picked up from a guy down the street from me. It had <10 hours on it when he upgraded to something else (I don't remember what). Would it be worth my while to go ahead and upgrade now, or use the MMF-5 for awhile and upgrade to something better later? My Syrah is supposed to be here next week and I figure I might as well give the phono section a listen while I am at it. I had bookmarked an AudiogoN ad of ole Wally's, he is right here in Atlanta so I wouldn't get the benefit of free shipping. Maybe I could get him to waive the 7% sales tax... hmmm...sigs still not showing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Jeez, Ed ... If you've got a -5, why not just stick with it for awhile ... Or you could drop by and see Walter who probably has both and do an A/B comparison? Nice guy to deal with. He double-boxed the unit before shipping which is a good sign of life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I agree with Chris here, on ALL counts. Good suggestions and would aid in striking up a deal after getting to know ole Wally/Walter. Give the MMF options a listen after hearing your MMf-5 in your own system. Yes, there are better tables out there but the 5 and 7 represent good value and have gotten general praise from all around. I generally like most things Music Hall imports as they offer good value and always err on the side of musical, not bombast. The MMF-7 does have the added benefit, which is pretty substantial, of having the motor housing separate from the chassis/plinth, further lowering the noise floor. Did you get a decent cartridge on your MMF-5? The Goldrings also err on the side of musicality; although I have never had them in my own home I have heard them other places (on Rega P series). Listen to what you have and get a feeling for the sound. BTW, take off the top when doing critical listening. Also, as always, as stand is very important with these tables as there is no suspension as in sprung tables. kh ps- The main tweak you can do, Ed, is remove that MONSTER television from your two channel center stage. I dont know how that happened as you have a full HT setup upstairs (Is the Miss Ed a TV nut?)... The TV is a no go in many ways. I find just having it in the center mentally influences how you perceive the sound not to mention the fouling of the soundstage. The mixing of the HT with the music side has never felt good to me at all. And if doing a dedicated 2 Channel room, having that screen in there makes no sense. How many TVs do you need? Just a small rant...influenced more by the dedication you have put into your 2 channel system and room. EDIT: LOrd...now the font is TOO BIG! heh.... Just when I was liking the font size. To me, this size makes it slightly harder to read, ironically enough! You cant win for losing. I should just keep my mouth shut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Good pics Chris! Can I move up there? Heh... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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