A funny thing happened on the way to the forum (long)

[Deang]

OTOH -- He has been exposed to plenty through the audio club he belongs too (right Max?), so it's not like the only things he's ever heard are low-end hi-fi speakers, and Heresies. I can't help but think that if he thinks they sound good -- they probably sound good.

Kelly -- I certainly agree with you in principle, but I find it odd that you would base some of your opinion on these speakers from exposure to them in an awful acoustical environment, improperly placed, with crappy wire, a crappy receiver, and who knows what source (FM radio?).

[mobile homeless]

Well, I did hear them with a NAD 3020 and Sony 1 Bit CDP in his home. After a speaker upgrade in his house, he moved these to the shop and I helped him mount the bastards, sadly enough. No, I have not heard them in my house, or on really nice equipment, but I have got a pretty general understanding of the sound. Granted, putting any speaker on top notch gear brings out the best; I have found this time and time again, even with pedestrian monitor speakers placed on good stands and setup properly. There was a time when the Julian Hirsch of the World felt that speakers were everything and I still think the amplifier plays a tremendous role; On the other hand, while these speakers may rock, and despite the JBL pedigree (of course, I hate 99% of JBL's regular monitor speaker offerings as they are BRIGHT BRIGHT BRIGHT - I am not referring to vintage units, pre-70s), based on my exposure, I dont think these are on the same level as say some usd ProAc Response 2 speakers among others. I seriously might take one down and see what's inside, however.

[justin_tx_16]

Are you saying then that at say $20 for the pair and shiping fees $60, for a total of $80 would be too much for these? When compared to Heresy's, a $20 would not beat the Heresy's Price/Performance ratio with still strong performance?

[maxg]

I am the first one to accept that there have been precious few speakers in my living room for me to try.

On the other hand of course the same applies to amps, TTs and the rest of the components (no more than 4 of any item has been in my house).

As Dean states (thanks for coming to my defense) I have , however, heard a great number of other systems. A few of these have been via the club whilst others have been either in other people's homes, at shows and of course in showrooms.

A week on Sunday the club descends on mass on my house. I am waiting their response. All I can say is that the last thing I expected was for these speakers to sound as good as they do.

I should add that I would have been far less confident in my assessment were it not shared by Tony (my long suffering, longer time serving, audiophile friend). As he has had speakers ranging from KHorns to Quad 989's and amps ranging from Cary's to Accuphase in his house alongside god only knows what else (I dont think even he remembers them all) if he likes them I am probably on the right track.

Further, Tony heard them on Sunday. Since then I have repositioned them, changed the speaker wires and played them almost incesantly. They are running in for sure (they were played that little previously that the woofer is still tight) and I think I am going to really surprise him when he next comes around.

As an illustration of what is happening when we played them together I needed to turn the volume knobs up to 12 o-clock to really get them to play properly. As of last night they now "come on song" at about 9:30 and I expect that figure to drop suitably over the coming days.

This is the most important development for me. Almost all my listening is done at fairly low volumes (demands of a baby and a long suffering wife). If I cannot get these to respond at, say, 84 db at my listening postion (max) then they will sadly have to go.

As I think Justin said - for the money.....

[mobile homeless]

Well, they are probably less sensitive than your Heresy, which stands for one of the reasons you need so much more volume to get them to open up.

I did not mean for you to have to be defensive here (in relation to you thanking Dean for coming to your defense). What I was really saying was that part of the excitement might be due to diferent sonic signature from the Klipsch sound. I was trying to temper your statements with a recommendation that you might try some other speakers as well to put your impressions in perspective.

Does anyone else have any speakers you can borrow? I mentioned the ProAc Response 2 speaker as this was a very open and natural sounding speaker with tubes with better imaging, and a far deeper soundstage when placed on stands and away from walls. I think the ProAc also does rock better than the vintage Klipsch speakers, depending.

My concern was that you might be jumping for this speaker in comparison to certain aspects of the Heresy. And after hearing this speaker on ok solid state, albeit, not setup to perfection, I was forced to some of these conclusions. The speaker, in my opinion, sounded rather thick and did not have the best driver integration.

Still, as you said, how can you beat the price and results? Obviously, if anything, it tells you there are other things that bear fruit. Needless to say, the ones on ebay are VERY cheap and might be worth someone picking up if nearby just to give a listen.

ps- btw, I like your coffee table!

pps- When you finally get your speakers off the same stand as the amps, I think you might notice an improvement as well. Think of the vibration problems here. Also, the height is problematic.

[maxg]

Kelly,

I didnt feel attacked - the coming to my defense line was tongue in cheek (never comes over well in a forum).

Just one thing though, the Sansui's are rated at 98db/w/m which is higher than the 96 of the Heresies so I dont think sensitivity is the issue.

Initially they just needed to go loud to play properly (ignoring where the dial is on the pre-amp - how much actual power is going in) and I would guess they were playing nearer 95 db at my listening position and at that level the sound really fleshed out.

As I said above this level required to flesh out the sound is falling (thankfully) as they run in and I play.

Ultimately you are correct (reading between the lines of what you say) in that these are not perfect speakers by any means and are as flawed as are the Heresies, but in a different way.

All that matters to me, ultimately, is how well those flaws are dealt with (compensated for) by the surrounding electronics. The remarkable thing is that despite the fact that my entire system has been built around the Heresy (tubes to drive them, positioning (including height), a sub to make up for the bass and so on the Sansui's benefit more than the Heresies and therefore appear to play better in my setup.

I would also agree with you that almost any monitor can be made to sound good with a proper setup behind you. In fact you have just nailed what has become the cornerstone of my philosophy.

I firmly believe that the importance of what speaker you have is over-exaggerated in audio and that it is matching of components to it that is key, within certain limits at the extremes. You cant make an Aiwa speaker play as well as a KlipschHorn but you can make a KHorn play badly or well to the point that a well driven LaScala (for example) sounds better than a badly driven KHorn.

Finally I have never heard a Proac speaker. If I find one I will try to take a listen. I was also considering sourcing Dynaudio speakers as I hear good things about them, time and budget limits not withstanding.