maxg Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Acutally whilst I was at home baby sitting (wife out getting nails done or something and shopping obviously) and my brother in law comes round (the older one). Seems he is thinking of getting a DVD player and was wondering about holding out for a recorder. Anyway we got talking and it turns out he has inherited my old Yamaha 492 receiver from his brother (the younger one) who doesnt have room for it. He was wondering if he could connect it up to the TV using his speakers for the new DVD, existing video etc. This is a job for cable guy (me..). Wife returns and off we go to his house. He has a very nice philips TV and a simply dreadful Sony mini (midi?) system which I immediately manage to connect together with a pair of RCA's much to his amazement and gratitude. In fairness it does sound better than the TV sound but not much. We get to talking about the Yamaha and I express concerns about trying it with the Sony speakers. He doesnt have the manual for the Sony - there is nothing marked on the back and I am worried about impedance and such like as these are very much built to a budget. I ask if he has any other speakers and sure enough he does. There are 3 of these damn Sony things about the house, each a previous version of the last. I am about to give up when he says that the only other thing he has are his dad's old speakers.... Dad's old speakers?? I ask casually. Sure enough in a cupboard we find these: Now - ignore the fact that they appear to be in my house setup on my system for the time being. Anyway suffice to say I get all excited - pull them out - connect them to the Yamaha - use his apple computer as a source. We can only get the speakers about 3 feet apart but even with this very poor, cobbled together system there is something there. The sound isnt right exactly but it is getting close. Intrigingly there are some strange controls on the back that I have never seen on a speaker before: Time to call long suffering Tony (who lives nearby) and was in bed with his girlfriend at the time (the things that man gives up when stereo's are at stake). Yes - he knows the speakers and yes he is coming round (ignore any of the more obvious puns please). He comes round - listens - and declares that these play better than my Heresies. I am less sure but am interested in trying them out. The only person who has no interest is my brother in law. He hates them - "too big, too ugly" and insists I take them away or he will throw them away. Of course whilst I am about it he also takes the opportunity to dump all his old vinyl records on me (the nerve!!). Anyway I have taken several more snaps so here they are: And here is a picture of the new speakers in my system: And finally, in contrast, a picture of my new computer sound system that also magically appeared yesterday: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 so, how do they sound? what kind of tweeter is that? or is it one at all. it has the metal ribs pointed down between two midrange woofers. how does it sound? it looks like it has potential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaloumbakas Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Max, Don't tell me you are going to have these Sansui speakers during our next Club meeting. This will be very interesting indeed !!! (or may be we should make a comparisson...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonelobo Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Interesting. I found a pair of these at an Estate Sale a few weeks back for $200. I passed having just bought a pair of Heresy's from the the same estate sales company the week prior for less money. I called a knowledgeable friend and asked him about them and his comment was that they were all the rage at the time of their manufacture but he always thought they had mushy bass compared to Klipsch. I've never heard them and would be interested in your comments. I might find more in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 I remember those Sansuis from a long long time ago. They competed well with the JBL L100s that were comparable in price. The cane grill always turned me off, though. Looked like they belonged in your fathers stereo. Maybe that isn't such a bad thing, after all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 6, 2002 Author Share Posted October 6, 2002 OK, OK, lots of questions foremost among them being how do they sound... Normally I would not answer such a question this early in the listening process but as I have spent most of the day trying everything from large classical to solo voice I will give you my first impressions. Before I get onto that hopefully most of you noticed that the tweeter is in fact horn loaded and placed centrally behind that louvered baffle thing. I have no idea what horn it is but at some point I will take the whole thing apart and report back on the contents. Suffice to say for now that this thing is built!! It weighs about double the Heresy (itself no lightweight for its size, and from what I can tell dates from sometime around the mid 70's). Observed strengths: Soundstage depth - as large a soundstage as the Heresy but much much deeper. Absolutely amazing as reproducing full orchestral and opera works - murders the Heresy here at even moderate volumes. Imaging - creates a larger and more credible image than the Heresy - much less "in the box" sound more reminiscent of planar speakers. Tonality - less flavoured than the Heresy (but not quite as live feeling at low volumes). Volume - seemingly endless (i.e. way louder than I would ever want to take it) certainly on a par with the Heresy - maybe more. Observed Weaknesses: Lacks impact at low volumes, can sound really flat and lifeless in comparison to the Heresy. This problem disappears as you turn the dials to the point that it smacks you upside the head just like a Klipsch. Bass - not sure here yet - needs more observation. I have the feeling there is a little heaviness about the bass but that may be its integration with the sub which I am yet to optimize for these speakers (in other words it is running with the settings for the Heresy that I spent months finding). Mids need the watts to really play (similar to point 1 above) - they get a little over-powered by the bass and highs until the volume climbs when, if anything, they then overpower the other 2. Current leanings: Well I am not about to rush out and sell the Heresies. In fact I have connected them up to my spare Accuphase and usng the computer as input as I type. I do like the size of the music from the Sansui's and would rate their classical reproduction as amongst the best I have heard this side of $100,000 systems. I cant tell whether I prefer them over the Heresies or not yet. I have a built in bias towards the Heresy and the mere fact that these speakers have made this strong a challenge speaks volumes to their strengths. In typical fashion for me I can see myself finding a way of running both indefinitely. I would miss the sheer bite of the Heresy but parting with these would leave a big classical whole for me. Christos, Yes these may well be here when we hold the ACA meeting (delayed a week I assume - you didnt confirm). Comparison wont be easy on a single system due to cabling issues (the new ones dont take the silver cables - too thick - so I am running them with some cheapo monster type stuff I used to use for the surrounds). If people like, I can run the second system in the study with the Marantz CD6000 as source for comparison (unless I can find my SACD player again). Anyway there should be lots to listen to - I just picked up another 30 albums!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Sansui (and many other Japanese)speakers of that time were heavily influenced by JBL, as a result they favored efficiency over deep bass for a given cabinet size and used drivers of excellent build quality. Pioneer went so far as to hire ex JBL designer Bart Locanthi to design their HPM line of speakers and their TAD drivers. The gizmo over the tweeter is an acoustic lens, more JBL influence. The lens controls dispersion. www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Sansui sure had a lot of variations of their lines of speakers over the years, SP this, SP that, 3,4,5,6-way designs. My early '70's Sansui SP-2000's are completely different from Max's mid-'70's SP-2500's. Other than the cabinet size is the same and they use a 12' woofer. Max's are a higher quality line of Sansui than mine, I would guess. My only bummer is that three out of the four 16 ohm tweeters in both speakers are fried, and I can't find replacement diaphragms for the tweeters. And I don't want to buy a bunch of Sansui speakers off of Ebay or something just to get three 16 ohm tweeters. I posted about my SP-2000's on the BB's once. I was told that they probably sound like crap, so be aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 It seems many of the forum members are losing chromosomes. Old tubes, ancient amps, scratchy records, "obsolete" speakers -- What the hell is wrong with us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 7, 2002 Author Share Posted October 7, 2002 ---------------- On 10/6/2002 6:48:10 PM deang wrote: It seems many of the forum members are losing chromosomes. Old tubes, ancient amps, scratchy records, "obsolete" speakers -- What the hell is wrong with us? ---------------- Well at least I am moving forward timewise - the Heresy is based on an even older design than these LOL. Its a good question though - especially as my brother-in-law asked much the same thing - "surely speaker design has advanced since these were made - how can these sound better than my Sony's?" Therefore, purely in an effort to help fellow forum members out I am prepared (totally at my own cost) to swap out those dreadfull old corner Horn speakes some of you are lumbered with for a brand new pair of Sony's at no cost to you. Please apply to my email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 MaxG, Nice system you have there,its funny I too like to listen to oldies from time to time.Even with their faluts they sometimes sound great.Look at the K Horns and Cornwall,classics still some of the most enjoyable speakers. Great turntable BTW Christos, Damn your avatar pic is hypnotic Ah the Genesis and Jeff Rowland,wonderful system you have there.True world class sound with elegance(my systems look like store setups LOL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 Well it seems that these speakers are the bargain of the century. I just looked them up on ebay hoping to see them changing hands for silly money - and they are - but the wrong end of the scale for my liking: This pair is currently at around $20: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1386368465 And this pair are half of that!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1386138836 So if anyone wants to join me in evaluating them the entry price is about the same as a burger and fries with a large coke it seems. If o9ne of you out there could see your way to getting a pair to compare to some heritage speakers I would be very interested. As an aside I was hoping to be able to swap out the dreadful clip connectors for some proper binding posts. Sadly the way they are built seems to preclude that option. The crossover is mounted directly on the rear of the plastic cover on the back and I cannot figure out how to get it off as those funny controls are in the way and dont seem to be removable from the outside. Typically I have already gone out and bought the binding posts - maybe I can put them on Tony's home made speakers I have lying around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 would you say they are better than heresy's fo rloud bassy music, classical AND rock? i am a mix of all three hehe... i was going to get a pair of heresy's but these are so cheap... what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 ---------------- On 10/8/2002 6:30:31 AM justin_tx_16 wrote: would you say they are better than heresy's fo rloud bassy music, classical AND rock? i am a mix of all three hehe... i was going to get a pair of heresy's but these are so cheap... what do you think? ---------------- It is difficult to tell as I run both with a REL Strata 3 sub which handles the bass department rather well. I am guessing that with similarly sized woofers (12 inch) the Sansui should win out as it is a slightly larger enclosure and ported. It certainly makes the spl more obvious with the ports being front firing. Unfortunately I have been totally unable to find proper specs on these things so I dont know what the relative db/w/m levels are but these appear to me to go louder, quicker than the Heresies which implies a higher rating than the Heresy's 96. For the prices we are talking about I was working on the basis you can afford to make a mistake. If they dont pan out you should be able to get your $10 back and go for a pair of Heresy's (the wooden cabinet alone should be worth that). As it happens for rock music I find the Heresies a little lacking in bass anyway so I would always recommend a sub with them. Can you really go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 i guess you cant LoL! it is shipping that has me wondering... 50lbs for the pair, anyone know how much that is to ship to houston tx? thinking about $40-50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 Not 50lbs for the pair - 50 lbs each!! That is 100lbs plus the weight of the packaging. Reckon it would be better to pick one up from near you when it comes up - shipping could bankrupt you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 FWIW- I am shipping a pair of Heresy's from Atlanta to Madison, WI. Each speaker is 53lbs double boxed and shipping is $26/speaker (which includes $300 insurance for each speaker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Max, just out of curiosity, what speakers have you owned or had in your system for any time besides the Klipsch Heresy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 What Kelly - you want the full list??? Well - none really. That is not exactly true but everything before the Heresy was, shall we say, crap? Or at least not up to this level.. Ignoring the early speakers (the integrated Sony, Aiwa etc. bundled jobs) there were the quintets with the Klipsch 10 inch sub, the KSB 3.1 monitors and then the Heresies. A pair of RF3's were in for a day or so just for playing (boy did they go loud!!) Other than that I have Tony's home made bookshelf horns but nothing else springs readily to mind. Basically I heard the Heresies in a shop demo and that was that. Never moved an inch from there on in, till the weekend that is. Of course I did add the REL Strata 3 but do subs count? If they do there are a few of those I can add. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Because I think you are in for a "whole other World out there" shock when you start sampling some better speakers that may not fit the Klipsch mold. I know it is Heresy to say these things and surely hard for some of the diehard Klipsch fans to take in, but there are some damn good speakers out and about that bring other strengths besides the classic horn sound. I have a sneaking suspicion you would be impressed by some of the better offerings, offerings that I imagine would put this Sansui option in perspective, if not in price, than surely in natural reprodution. My woodworking friend has a pair of these very speakers in his shop sound system run by an aging (and insanely dusty) Pioneer receiver. Yeah, the shop is alive with sound but I for the life of my cant imagine these beasts as my main speakers, run by quality amplification or not. He would get quite a chuckle if I attempted to take them down off the wall for a listen. Still, other things have surprised me in this field... but just the back contraption alone makes me a bit dizzy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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