Mike Lindsey Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 This past weekend, Q-Man came over to my house and we demoed a number of horns with my La Scala's w/ALK crossovers. Here is the thread in question. We both came to the conclusion that the SVS 20-39CSi cannot keep up with my modified La Scala's at volume. I really don't think I want to add a second 20-39CS because I can't put them next to one another and I really don't have the room for a second Sub. I also don't have the skills to do what HornEd did and stack them on top of one another. Even if I could, I couldn't put it in a corner and that is where I would want the tower. That means I may have to sell my 20-39CSi/Samson S700/BetterCables Speaker Wire and consider something else. I am currently thinking of the following Subs: SVS Ultra w/Samson S1000 Velodyne HGS-18 Velodyne HGS-15 REL Storm III Klipsch RSW-15 Sunfire Signature I have a budget of around $1500 on this and that may rule out the HGS-18. I will also consider buying used (in all seriousness, that's what I'll end up doing anyway). At present, this sub is used only for my HT rig, but I will also like to incorporate it into my 2-channel system (Scott 299 and La Scala's) if that's possible (all recommendations on how to do this would be appreciated). For those of you with any of the above mentioned subs, I would appreciate all input you have to offer, including your unbiased opinions. I am also open to other suggestions, so don't be bashful. My HT rig consists of the following: Denon 4800 Acurus A200X3 (driving mains) Panasonic RP-91 DVD (Prog Scan and DVD-A) Outlaw ICBM Monster HTS-3500 Klipsch La Scala's w/ALK's and Altec 511B horns Klipsch KLF-C7 center Klipsch Chorus rears Klipsch RS-3's rear center SVS 20-39CSi w/Samson S700 When playing a number of DVD-A discs at volume (105 - 110db), the SVS simply cannot keep up and the amp starts to clip. I am looking for more shear volume from the sub without losing speed or clarity. I have posted a number of pictures of my room so a lot of you should be familiar with my setup, but I am attaching another one here. The Sub has been moved to the other side of the fireplace in front of the left La Scala. I would appreciate any input you have to offer... Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I wouldn't go for the Sunfire. I would be looking at the SVS Ultra or a 15-18 inch sub. The Velodyne's could work well. However, I am not well versed in big, expensive subs. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmidty Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Does that setup sound as good as it looks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Yes it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Doubt you'll be able to do or fit this, but it will definately be able to keep up with Lascalas. In fact your Lascalas may have problems keeping up with it. Only problem is doesn't have a lot for below 30hz output. http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp If you can wait a while this should also be able to keep up. http://www.acoustic-visions.com/tumult.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Now, does it look like I will have room for that first Sub? Also, I have no desire to DIY. I am basically a lazy person and do not have the talent or the time to put one together. Does no one have any comments on the Subs mentioned in the 1st post? Maybe this should be a post on the HomeTheaterForum... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Am I missing where you have pictures? The basshorn was more for fun, few people who can DIY would actually attempt building something that complex. Acoustic Visions will do fully completed Tumults. No assembly required by you at all (athough fully assembled it might push your $1500 budget a bit, especially since it will require a kilowatt or more of power). Also at 6ft^3 might be a little bit larger than you would like. However it should easily dust everything you've listed above output wise and be no slouch in sound quality either. Especially with Adire's new XBL^2 motor topology. If the objective is to keep up in output with the LaScalas you can definately drop the Sunfire and Rel. Not a hope. The HGS15 will be pretty close in output to what you currently have so that drops it too. So that leaves the other three. RSW15 can't touch the Ultra or HGS18 in the last octave. Above 30hz they should all be pretty close in output though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Dustin, Thanks for the reply. If you look at the bottom of my 1st post, there is a line that says revisions and attachments. Click on the LS61.jpg attachment where it says attachments. If you add an attachment to a post, that is where it will put it... Mike Edit: I wasn't sure about the Sunfire but had heard a lot of good remarks regarding the REL. I believe there are some members on this board who have the REL with La Scala's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerjamesthethird Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 An RSW-15 will do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Mike Lindsey, If you need to keep up under 25Hz at higher volume the only choices are the SVS Ultra/Samson 1000 amp or a custom 4-8cu ft cabinet containing the Tumult driver Dustin pointed to with a Samson 1000 amp.Forget even the Velodyne HGS18 as it drops like all cube subs below 30Hz fast. If high output down to around 30Hz would be A ok then most of the subs listed hit very hard,RSW15,HGS15 and 18 and the Sunfire Signature.Unless you need wall moving power Since your budget is a bit restrained this prevents me from recoimending my fave $3000 sub the Revel B15,it has huge output and quality to face any sub made.Down to 30Hz it can beat a HGS18 and a Sunfire Signature combined!!Below 30Hz its similar to a HGS18,and drops like a stone below 20Hz. I would invest in the Tumult if I had your budget and restraints.I think the Tumult in a simple ported(vented)box can whoop the SVS Ultra.Please note I am looking at the specs here,as I never heard or saw the Tumult.I did however test two Ultras,simply bottomless sub bass and power to spare up to wall busting levels. If you dont want to build the sub yoursel just get the Ultra/Samson 1000(why not two Ultras????) Ken, You are very quick to dismiss the Sunfire Sig.,a sub you dont even know that well!Flash news the Sunfire Signature can keep with all comers down to 30Hz in output.Nothing to be ashamed even when facing subs twice or six times its size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 It will be tough to do a Tumult in a ported box. The port requirements are higher than you can fit in the box sizes that will work well with the Tumult. You pretty much have to either go sealed or passive radiator (pair of 18" passive radiators from Stryke will just barely fit the bill). The Tumult also isn't in production yet. We will hopefully see it soon though. None the less Dan Wiggin's has stated that it would take almost 3 Tempests to equal a Tumult, but in a much much smaller enclosure (think more bass than the dual Tempest of Mike Strassburg but in 6ft^3 instead of 16ft^3). XBL^2 has been proven in their Brahma series and Adire has an excellent track record. May take a while to get everything on the Tumult right, but when it is out, you can be pretty confident it will be one hell of a driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 the RSW-15's are pretty cool. As people have said, it has super power above 30 hz, but below it lacks. I love mine though, has way more than enough power for my little room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Get at least 4, 18" woofers. Preferbly car subwoofers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Hey Ear, It's about time you jumped in here. I remember you liking an Areil (SP) sub. I don't even know it that is the correct name. So your saying you prefer the Revel B15 over that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 No the Aerial SW12 is superior to the Revel B15,the Aerial is out of range for most here it goes for 5000 USD!The Revel B15 for only 3000 USD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 I am now considering a second 20-39CS that will sit on the opposite side of the fireplace, about 7' away from the other one. This would certainly be my cheapest alternative (under $500) and may just do the trick. My concern is whether they would cancel one another out being so far away from one another. I'm also guessing I won't get the full 6db of output for the same reason. What would the difference be by replacing the 20-39CSi/Samson S700 with the Ultra/Samson S1000. Would I get the same output as I would with a second 20-39CS? WIll it go lower than the two 20-39CS's? BTW, here is a Revel B15 on sale at AudiogoN in Rosewood for $1650 that is supposedly mint... http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?homesubw&1038882051 Keep those thoughts coming, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Ultra won't go lower. Same tuning. Just more porting and a significantly better driver. A single Ultra will come really close to matching the output of a pair of properly coupled CSi subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 The Ears, Do you own an Aerial SW12, or just had the chance to play with one? Will it blow my Sunfire Signature away or just go a little deeper and louder? I like my Sunfire a lot, I would be very disapointed if I spent a few grand more and it was only a mild improvement. I would like to start watching for a used one somewhere. Mike, I'm not pushing my sunfire on you. I might not even get rid of it. My next sub has to be an end all sub. So I may live with what I have for a while. You heard it and it blows away your SVS. My thought is that one might fit behind your left channel LaScala in that front corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 The EAR will not respond to slanderous talk about Sunfire subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Ken, No I cant stand hype and empty speculation from people who only read others views.I dont follow anyone I had so many subs a home and have almost a dozen I dont need to read reviews.I own,not copy and paste. The Tumult as wonderful as it may look is no world beater until its released and bests an Ultra in a A/B test,quality and loudness here,not only just LOUD.And then I would love to hear and measure how it "destroys" and Aerial SW12,LOL.In sound quality the Aerial SW12 beats any subs I hear and tested and owned.Even the Ultra,no matter how some may think. Q-Man, Yes sir I own a Aerial SW12,a Revel B15,a Velodyne HGS18,A SUnfire Signature,a Sunfire Mark II,a Sunfire Junior,two Carver Knight Shadow,a Klipsch RSW10,a Klipsch KSW12 and 15.And soon to come two SVS Ultra and CS-Plus subs,plus the Talon ROC.I abandoned my idea to go with teh JBL Ti-K sub after its misterious disapearance from the JBL website!?And the store told me they only would have the sub on special order(breaks to often????)not good. Anyway Mr Q.,the Aerial is the king when you have the green,want top shelf build quality(BTW unmatched by any sub besides the Krell MRS and Wilson Watch Dog,and maybe the B&W ASW 4000...close)and output to rival an SVS Ultra.Its a perfect match even with my tiny Dynaudio Contour 1.1's! By all means audition one with your fave speakers,you will see what I mean when I say its one of the very best.Unless you want is deaf and bling output and no quality.Like I said output without built quality and sound quality means bull. My Dynaudios and Spendors dont play as loud as my Klipsch buy they put the former to shame when complex and delicate music plays.Not even close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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