T2K Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 I have a Denon DP47F turntable with a Signet MM cartridge. Don't have the cartridge specs so I have no idea as to the output of the cartridge. Sounds pretty good though. I'm using the TT with my Denon 3801. Anyone have any idea as to whether the following cartridges will have sufficient output for use with above equipment: Benz MC-20E-2 2.2mV Clearaudio Aurum Alpha MM 3.3mV Sumiko Blue Point MC MC 2.5mV Grado Prestige Gold MM 5.0mV Anyone have any experience with above carts? Any cart comments or suggestions? Would the Grado sound better with my equipment? Also, when scanning for vinyl on a few sites, I noticed the word "notched" in the description. Any idea what that means? Thanks! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 I can't help you with thos cartridges except to say I would steer clear of Grado cartridges they tend to hum on my setup when no other cartridge does. The notch is in the Album cover and means it was a over stock or left over from years of no one buying vinyl at least this is all I could think of that they would be talking about. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 The notch in the album means it's a CUTOUT. And Craig is right, it usually designates OVER STOCK from record company of the title and is sold at a reduced rate (notch makes it known to public as well). While working at the radio station for all those years, we would also get cutouts to give to DJs. Some were promotion too but just as often said "PROMO" or eveny now and then, "NOT FOR RESALE." As for those cartridges, all of them will play on a MM stage. Once you get too much below 2.2 or so, it gets a loss of dynamics and volume. 2.5 is ok. All those cartridges have people that like them. You pretty much have to decide for yourself. The Clearaudio has gotten a lot of good comments. I loved the original Sumiko Blue Point a lot! Very tube like and nice. In reality, those cartridges are better than your phono section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I use a Grado Gold with a Creek OBH-8SE preamp. I think it sounds very good .. some records better than CDs. Audiophile records almost always better than CDs. No hum. I do have to use the ground wire that cae with the Dual turntable. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 Ha! Thanks for the reply Kelly. Yes I realize the Denon phono section is probably nothing to write home about, but I thought I would improve on the cartridge first then maybe buy a phono preamp. Actually right now I'm using the TT with a Technics receiver and a pair of Klipsch surround speakers. Knowing the sound of those speakers, I'm looking for an improvement with my main setup. Talked to a few people in the bidness today and after giving them the rundown on my equipment and preferences the words 'Clearaudio Aurum Alpha' keep getting mentioned. That's probably what I'll buy. Craig's warning about the Grado's tipped the scales for me and I'll pass on the Grado Gold. Thanks Craig! After working 14 or so hours each night the last three nights I came home this morning with the desire for something to eat and a little music. Wynton Marsalis goes pretty good with breakfast. Even on a DD turntable with SS electronics! I do appreciate everyone's help! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 Dang! I was wandering aimlessly aroung the house before submitting my post and missed leok's response. Kinda muddies the water ! decisions..decisions! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Those other cartridges are better than the Grado to me, even without hum. You are not on the wrong track. Sadly, you are in need of a big upgrade all the way around; hell, you could sell that stuff and get used gear that would really knock your socks off (either SS or tube). Man the difference would be staggering, especially after upgrading your source like you are doing. btw, I was a big Grado proponent on the cheap for years. I have been using Grados since th 70s actually. Ole Joe Grado has been a pioneer and his cartridges offer the best bang for the buck if you have the right table and arm. They CAN be a problem in some arms and systems for various reasons. Once you get in the $100 range, I find other offerings better, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 YOU'RE NOT GONNA SUCKER ME IN MOBILE!!! Reminds me of the turntable decision. Based on Ray's (and others) recommendation months ago, I thought I would surely buy a Music Hall TT. Then I got to thinkin' about the dark corner where I would put the turntable and the fact that my hands aren't quite as steady as they used to be. The 'lifter up' and 'locate' buttons on the Denon caught my eye. I called around asking for opinions on the Denon and here is a sample response that I got, "as far as direct drive's go, Denon does it right". So that's what I bought and I'm happy with it. For now. I tend to stick with things that work for me. I guess that's why I've stayed married to the same woman for 30 years. I do understand and take your advice as just the absolute best advice that you can give in an attempt to achieve that which we all are striving for. And I appreciate your comments. But I guess I'd better stick with what I've got for now. I hear divorces are quite expensive! Thanks again... Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Kieth, I've been silent until now so, here comes my two cents. I currently use the Clearaudio Aurum Alpha MKII in my VPI Aries Scout TT, JMW 9 tonearm. The praise you've heard of this cartridge is warranted. I'm way over the top when it comes to being a Jazz lover though Allan, C&S, and mobile have larger collections, the Clearaudio is a winner with Jazz music. There's no hype in the sound of this cartridge, very smooth and natural(nuetral), wonderful midrange. And yes, Winton, Branford, Monk, Miles, Duke, Dizz, Coltrane, Count, Ella and Billie, sound very nice with it. This is not to downgrade any other make or model, and I've used and like many Grado's. I just think the Alpha is a wonderful solution for it's cost. Don't forget a break in period is required. Your ears will be rewarded. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Keith, I don't have any experience with the Grado Prestige line, but I have used a Grado Platinum (the $300 list version) for some time, and like it a lot. I wanted to drop a note and mention that if anyone you talk to is suggesting you consider the Reference series from Grado as a possible candidate, *DON'T* buy one unless you have some experience with setting up cartridges. The wooden bodies on the Reference line don't have any parallel sides, and trying to get the damn thing lined up correctly using a protractor or other widget is very difficult. I'm still not sure mine is optimally set up. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Here is what Ray is referring to in his post. See below: Ray, what did you use to set yours up? Did you you the DB Systems Protractor? Yeah, what you have to end up using is the FRONT of the cartridge on grid lines. Also, the equal distance between the inward angles of the side and the parallel grids (of course, for those that have not mounted a cartridge with one of these beasts, this sounds insanely nebulous). Getting your cartridge mounted correctly is one of the SECRETS to good analog sound! A bit off and the whole presentation suffers like a cheap deck of cards... Ditto with the VTA which HAS to be done by ear. I almost always err to the rear lower than the front of the tonearm if not completely parallel. Bringing the rear up higher than the headshell on the record usually brings too much brightness and a tipped up treble. But each cartridge/tonearm is different. Also, when you loons get your new high-end tables with NO DETACHABLE HEADSHELLS on the tonearm, the whole affair just got that much more difficult! Most good tonearms do not have detachable headshells as the integrity of the arm suffers (but out goes the flexibility and ease of intall). Setting up a new cartridge can be a ROYAL pain! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Keith, I was using my TT with my Denon 4800 and it was passable. When I upgraded to a separate phono stage (the tubed AES PH-1), it made a dramatic difference. You need to plug the phono stage into the AUX on the Denon because you dont want it to amplify the signal twice. I then bought the Scott 299 integrated, and the phono section in the Scott was better than the AES PH-1, so I sold the PH-1. I'm telling ya, when you get the dough, pick up a phono stage (preferably tube) and you will be glad you did... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 23, 2002 Author Share Posted October 23, 2002 Nice table Jazman. Thanks for the reassuring comments. Every time I go to one of the big boxes of vinyl I recently bought I pull out something interesting. The wife has stopped griping about the boxes of 'old records'. I was reading a review w/picture of that cartridge the other night Ray and that exact thought crossed my mind. Thanks for the suggestion.I will probably buy something else. What about those mirrored alignment gizmos with the square grids. Anyone found those useful? As usual, thanks for the help! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 23, 2002 Author Share Posted October 23, 2002 I missed your comments Mike. I'm off today and I'm wandering around the house drinking coffee and occasionally pattin' the old lady on the a$$ and tinkerin' with the 'record player'. Later today I plan on putting a smile on her face (I'm going to move the table, receiver, and speakers off the kitchen counter)! I thought about buying your PH-1 when you mentioned selling it a while back but I was busy at the time and let that opportunity pass. I'll probably buy something when/if I get the time. Thanks for the tip. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 Well, my system for vinyl enjoyment now consists of an inexpensive Dual 504 belt drive turntable (picked it up for $3 at a garage sale, cleaned it up, slapped on a new belt, and it sounds great!), a Yamaha CA 810 integrated amp, a Yamaha T-85 tuner found in a pawn shop for $50, and a pair of Infinity Studio Monitors. Pulling the info off the vinyl is a Grado Prestige Blue. I love it. I'm suffering from no listening fatigue whatsoever, unless the vinyl is in less than ideal condition. I've been spending some time in local 2nd hand record shops, and have made some great finds of late. Yesterday I found a Mobile Fidelity version of Supertramp's Crime of the Century, and dropped the Grado on it. I'm still giddy over the sound coming out of my system. I'm giving a bit of thought to dumping my "modern" system and going simple 2 channel. The Yammy is old, but it certainly sounds wonderful to me, and considering giving my Klipsch a try with it. But, I would think that there are "modern" integrateds that would compete with the Yamaha (sorry "tubies", not quite ready to go with tubes right now). But the long and short of it, I really like my Grado, have been having some really good luck with it, and would reccommend it to anyone who doesn't have huge $$$ to spend on a cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 I appreciate everyone's comments/suggestions and here are the results. Bought a Grado Prestige Gold for $119. Here is why. Decided I needed to establish some baseline of knowledge regarding setup and sound of my table. Dreaded the thought of ruining a $200 Aurum Alpha learning how to properly set up the table and I also need a cartridge for my 20+ year old Sansui beauty that is in the closet. If the Grado survives my initiation into cartridge setup I'll use it on the Sansui XR-Q11. Then I'll need a cartridge for the Denon. Billy Vaughn sounds pretty good with the Signet. Hope he sounds better with the Grado. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Keith, Why are so many enduring cartridge setup misery? I think one should only buy a cartridge from a shop that will either install it for you or be willing to assist you with installation when you call. It may cost you a few nickels more but what's your time and the headaches worth? Just my jaded opinion. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Good point here, Jazman. On the whole, I would agree with you in that the money you save from ordering gear online at a tremendous discount does sometimes come back to haunt you down the road if you are in need of dealer services. In the old days, the dealer cartridge setup was how 90% did the tables. Unfortunately, I think there were a hell of a lot of cartridges set up to not very exacting standards. Once you do it the first time, you realize that it's a labor of love and patience, two things that dealers sometimes dont put on the front burner when doing such exacting work! Some dealers might do an excellent job here but more often than not, I suspect it is not as close as you might hope. This is one instance where I think it's very important for one to learn the ropes and details, especially if they are going to extract all they can from vinyl. Most dealers just arent trained in this area, even in the very esoteric high-end shops, not to mention the more down to earth variety. I think setting up your cartridge and arm adjustments is something every person deep into vinyl should learn. And thankfully, it does get easier and easier the more you practice and learn to handle the beasts. And when you get it spot on, everything really does pop into place and the results can be rewarding and worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 26, 2002 Author Share Posted October 26, 2002 I understand what you are saying jazman. However those dealers no longer exist in my area. There IS a local TT repair guru that I plan to use, but he isn't a dealer and doesn't sell. The cost difference in retail/online will go in his pocket. I think Craig's recent posts demonstrates a need for basic set-up knowledge as alluded to by Kelly. Thanks for the comments... Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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