ssstang Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO GET THESE POSITIONED?!? I have owned Fortes for 15 years. With them it was easy to place them equally spaced and viola! My listening room is 12x25 with the center listening position 10ft from the speakers. The speakers sit 3ft in front of my equipment 5ft from the back wall. I am powering the speakers with an Adcom gfa 555 200per side. With the speakers slightly turned in 1" off the wall, I get way too much left side vocal imaging. At first I thought it was my BK ref 30 processor. So, I hooked up my old Adcom gtp 500 and it had the same effect. I then started playing with the speaker position. By moving the right speaker 2" more off the wall it gave me perfect vocal balance. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! But, damn this took me months to figure out! I thought I had an equipment problem. Unfortunately this great imaging is only had when sitting perfectly in centered. Everyone else in the room will get off balance sound. I have never had a problem like this with speaker placement. What is ideal positioning for these speakers in a limited room like mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 i have my klf-30's positioned about 12" out from the wall and 65" apart toed into my listening chair...about 8 feet from the speakers...they sound fantastic...after i moved them out from the wall, the imaging improved a great deal. (my room is is 12 x 22) russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssstang Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 Do you mean out forward from the wall or inward away from the wall closer together? How is the vocal imaging through out your listening room? If you move from the center to the right do you follow the vocals? Meaning do the strong vocals then come from the right instead of being ambient or centered? My problem is when I am centered so is the sound. If I shift from to the left the vocals are too overpowering to the left etc. With other quality speakers, Fortes, B&Ws, old Infinities, I never had this problem. Either there is a placement fix or it seems these are too forward and directional for a narrow listening room such as mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 i'm not sure if i have my speakers set up the same as yours....mine are on the long wall... i get great imaging....in my listening chair the sound is awesome....as i move around the room, i still get a good sound... i have very little reflections from the side walls because the speakers are at least 8 feet from each side wall russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 ssstang: My KLF-30's are also far away from any walls on either side, like Minn Male42's, and my imaging is good center-seated or off to either side. And even without side wall reflections, a slight toe-in or out by as little as an inch or less on either the FL or FR speaker made an amazing change in that imaging. It took some experimenting to find the right setup for me also. I would advise that if you have the space, try working with them farther away from the side walls. PhilH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 My 20's get moved once a season due to the girlfriend wanting "change in the livingroom" (aarrrggggg!). Anyway, I took my old H.H. Scott 830Z Analyzer and did a very lengthy SPL test in both set-ups. After graphing all the readings (moving them an inch here and an inch there....) I came up with the numbers of 9.5" away from the closest point of the cabinet to both the rear and side wall(s) toed in to hit in between the two listening chairs set about 11 feet away for one set up and 8 feet for the other that seasonal re-arranging of the furniture. It still has alittle bit of reflection from one wall that has a large picture window when the drapes are open but that's easy to fix, close'em! After that it's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Proper positioning of loudspeakers for accurate response and imaging quickly becomes a matter of inches. The simple article from George Cardas, of wire fame, gives some excellent pointers, with a few caveats for horns. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0602/cardas.html As you can see from the article, the result is loudspeakers placed precisely at certain golden nodes in the room. They end up quite far from each front or sidewall. It works. In fact, my own Cornwall Is were very close to these marks and had an excellent sonic holograph. At first, the bass may seem too lean, but overall, the mid-range should improve in accuracy and tonal balance. The distance from the front wall, which you face, creates the depth of the soundstage. Truth be told, most loudspeakers I have positioned this way show remarkable sound staging capabilities, even the low cost Axiom Audio M3Tis. Horns image best when pointed directly at the ear, or the back of the head. In an average size room, this means they are pointed away from the side walls at quite an angle. This angle seems to reduce sidewall interference. It is possible to place horns closer to the sidewalls and create wider soundstage then what Cardas recommends. This certainly seems to be true with Classic Audio Cinema Ensembles. They have a rectangular black mid-range horn almost the size of the Khorn. I have them farther apart than any other conventional cone loudspeaker I have seriously auditioned in my home. They are about a foot closer to the side walls. Your listening position, by the way, should be 1.5 times the distance between the two loudspeakers. Ideally, you should position yourself at the apex of an isosceles triangle. If there is four feet between the two loudspeakers, for example, then the sweet spot will be about 6 feet in front of the loudspeakers. Once located in their proper positions, the inches make a big difference. Scooching a loudspeaker an inch or two closer this way or that makes a noticeable, though not wholly significant, different in the imagining. This isosceles angling is true for all but certain cone loudspeakers. To my ears, the Vince Christian E6c satellite system and the Coincident Triumph Signatures, while accurate, flat and with quite a good deal of tonal truth and balance, both sounded dull and uninviting. Yet both loudspeakers cast wide soundstages when I sat in an equilateral position; the same distance from the loudspeakers as they were from themselves. The E6c in fact, was able to wrap the sound up around my sides. A very neat trick. I could turn and look at the bass player, who seemed to be playing off my left shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 ssstang It is best to restrict your question to a single thread or forum. You need to get those puppies out from the sidewalls I believe. I run KLF30's in a room that is 13 X 26 feet. After much experimentation I have found that the most satisfactory soundstage and image is produced with the speakers about 2.5 feet from the rear wall and 3 feet from each of the side walls. I have found this to work very nicely. I intend at some point to move one speaker a little more to make the placement assymetrical as recommended by various authors in the field. It will be an interesting exercise. Keep playing with the placement. Once they are properly placed they will blow your mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssstang Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Thanks for the replies. I now understand I need a bigger house! Unfortunately, I am limited to a rectangular room that is only 15ft wide and I own a big screen tv that is over 5ft wide. Since, from what I read, these speakers are not shielded i can not bring these close to the tv. Bringing the speakers off the wall any farther than a few inches would either put the speakers in obstruction of the tv view or just adjacent causing magnetic interference. What to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 ssstang depending on tv your speakers wont interfer. if it's a projection you have no worry's. it really comes into play if you have a picture tube. i have klf20's that i had right next to my tv with no problems. danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEAM Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 MOVE OUT OF YOUR MOBLE HOME YOU CO#K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssstang Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Uh...OK. I would say thanks for the tip, but I think you are choking on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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