MBM135 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Well, it's finally here! I understand these things take 30 days or so to "break in" so kind of hard right now to make an overall review--I'll wait a month for that. But, here is my initial assessment. Bought from Bill at Response Audio (www.responseaudio.com). A reputable Jolida dealer. He had my unit shipped direct from Jolida. Well packed, and HEAVY! Hard to belive this little gem weighs so much. The amp came with Chinese tubes bearing Jolida's name. I never used them. I installed Electro-Harmonix EL34 drivers and 12AX7 preamp tubes and used JAN Philips for the signal. Was somewhat difficult getting several of the tubes installed--I really had to mess with them to get them seated. That was somewhat frustrating. Biasing was very simple--amazingly easy for a guy like me who is not into tinkering with electronics. Heck, my 80 year old grandma could bias this amp. Unfortunately the biasing is done from the bottom, a pain in the ***, but not that big a deal. I've never listened to a tube amp. Sounds "different" than solid state. Very different. I've noticed it is less fatiguing and the loudness at higher volumes just seems smoother and more laid back. I am very interested to see how the sound changes as the unit breaks in more. They say it will really open up after a 100 hours or so. Not sure what "open up? means?? There is the characteristic lack of deep bass that many reviews of tube gear mention, although I believe the strengths in the mid and high end will make up for this. Clarity is there. I have an intrumental CD, "Visions and Rythms", native American music, that contains a lot of unique sounds and detail. There are a couple of tracks where I heard things I never heard on my SS gear. Really amazing. Are there tubes that enhance bass? Oh, and it looks so awesome...the nice warm tubes glowing... 2 Chan Set-up Jolida 202 Rega Planet CD Player (original) Denon DCM-370 HDCD Changer Klipsch Forte IIs Interconnects: Clarity Labs Emberglow patch cords RCA brand 14ga copper wire terminated with banana plugs Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM135 Posted March 30, 2003 Author Share Posted March 30, 2003 I meant Announcing Arrival--must be the wine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Sounds like your having fun. The front end tubes can help enhance the bass somewhat but with the EL-34 your just not going to get ground pounding bass no matter what you do. I have spent the last 2 month trying every circuit trick in the book and they just don't respond ! They have a great bloomy warm mid range and very nice top end with a amazing sound stage but the bottom is just not there. It takes a KT-88 , 6550 , KT-90 output tube to get near SS bottom with a tube top end. I hope you biased the amp when it was hot the bias of these tubes really changes after there warmed up. You should redo it in about 2 weeks and do it with the amp really warmed up !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM135 Posted March 30, 2003 Author Share Posted March 30, 2003 Will do--I just followed the manual which says to wait about 10 mins--not very long. I will re-bias in a week or two. Glad you said something. Am really enjoying it--have already been looking a NOS preamp tubes--but will wait until the unit is broken in before messing with anything. Man, NOS valves are costly. A guy could have bought a more expensive amp for what these tubes sell for. Amazing how Svets and Electros are so cheap brand new. So, what were they doing years ago that modern tube makers aren't doing now? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Of course, as soon as you move to the KT-88 or 6550, you lose most of the midrange warmth and texture. The treble won't 'sparkle' as much either. My experience with the EL-34 to date is that it exhibits the attributes normally used to describe the tube sound. They in fact sound 'tubey'. A little fat, warm, and smooth as electric velvet. Having run KT-88's (somewhat similiar to the 6550) in the Superamp DJH, I don't really feel the additional drive and slam in the lower registers is worth giving up the magic midrange for. I really enjoy putting the juice to the RF-7's and never having the top harden up or go strident. The treble is oh so sweet and rich. When that Jolida 'opens up', what you will notice is the soundstage expanding outwards and forwards (bloom), and there will be more focus (stable images within the soundstage). Craig, Someday, we will have to run the Quicksilvers against the Mark III's. Doesn't that sound like fun? Your tube rectified, fast and deep 6550's against my eight (8) EL-34's and solid state rectification. I was always partial to small blocks anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Dean, That warm satisfying mid range pops right out at you when strapping the Mark III's in triode and I never heard anything like you discribed on the top end. They were well balanced top to bottom. Maybe the Super Amp wasn't all that super ? also I believe it was SS rectified ! Two amps using the same tube can sound very different you have to remember iron/circuitry and front end means allot !! Craig PS when I finally have the Mark III's they will surely trounce those 4 wimpy EL-34 Mike NOS Valves really isn't that expensive NOS Tubes are though !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Ahhh...the Jolida 202. They were my first tubes (on a recommendation from Kelly no less!). Enjoy!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Oh man, you gonna take me on with half your tubes glowing. Dude, you're brave. What a waste of some good 6550's -- get 'em all together and then cut their balls off. You must have meant to say my '8' wimpy EL-34s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 So I thought tubes would bring on more bass, but from what I have read here, that is not the case? Are there tubes that give you nice crispy hights, smooth mid and nice deep bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Moon, Where did you ever read tubes make more bass then SS here ? I can't think of any comment ever to that effect . Maybe I missed it. Dean, 8 - EL-34 against 4-6550 heck I think I'm fighting with a unfair advantage. ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 ---------------- On 3/31/2003 12:35:54 AM NOSValves wrote: Moon, Where did you ever read tubes make more bass then SS here ? I can't think of any comment ever to that effect . Maybe I missed it. ---------------- NOS, I must have missunderstood someones post. I may have interpreted warmer as also having more bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 SS bass is tight, fast, and punchy. Tube bass is slower, more rounded, and more like a thump instead of a whack. With tubes, the bass notes hang around long enough to enjoy them. In comparison, with SS, the notes almost seem like they're over before you have a chance to get into them. No time to savor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I've had plenty of tube amps (SE, SET, p-p) and while I like SE most, I found I much prefer the EL34 over the 6550 genre (unless the 6550 is wired triode- Margules, Rogue- which is nicer sounding than UL). With the proper speaker, the EL34 bass is fine. Like DeanG, I wouldn't sacrifice the midrange excellence for alleged better bass of the 6550. IME, the EI KT90 is the best sounding 6550 genre tube (disregarding NOS stuff) While the E-H power tubes are pretty good, consider getting some NOS Mullards for the pre-amp. If you want a more "chocolately" sound, try the Mullard CV4004, which I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 If I was running Scala's, K-horns, or Belles -- there is no doubt I would be running Triodes or Beam Tubes minus the grid connection on the tubes. Those three-way horns just don't NEED the additional drive and extension through the middle and top that UL provides. I think it's probably true with the Cornwall as well, but the lower sensitivity puts it on the border. I think straight up pentode is a good compromise with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 It must be very nice to have all this experiance with tubes... I read your guys posts and try to follow along but I must admit, I get lost along the way usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 m00n: Don't feel bad. This has been my main hobby for about 35 years and I'm still learning! The biggest mistake I ever made was about 12 years ago. I sold my Audible Illusions 2D and Quicksilver monos for a Krell KSL pre and KSA 100A amp. That crap lasted about 4 months and I sold it and went back to tubes. Been there since. While there are shortcuts up the learning curve, it still takes time. Don't bother with the audio rags either. There's a lot of experience and good advice right here on the Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 MBM135, Can you put KT66s in the Jolida? Not as powerful, but not by much, and Valve Art makes a KT66 that has a lot of low bass .. more than I generally go for. It's not an expensive tube (Chinese, and, I think, a good tube). As a rule I use Sovteks in my no-feedback, triode, pp, class A, application. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 leok, What was your final, or present choice, for 2A3 tubes for use with your Moondogs? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 jazman, Thre are two I like a lot .. one set is TungSol, relabeled "Champion." The other is RCA, 1947, dual (black) plate. The TJ Meshplates that came with the kit are fun, but a little messy in the high end. By the way, I just changed to parafeed output, which I think is way better than the traditional big transformer approach, and I've only tried the TungSol so far. Maybe the Meshplates will do better with parafeed. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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