edster00 Posted April 2, 2003 Author Share Posted April 2, 2003 jazman, I had been looking for ~a year and a half for the Cornwalls. The popped up for sale in "Updating Older Speakers" here. They were located in Bowling Green, KY. a 4½ (one way) hour drive for me. I sure hope to get the 'dogs running pretty soon, I have just had a hectic last few weeks and haven't had the time. Meanwhile I am really impressed with the EL-84 (6bq5) amp driving the Cornwalls and the Monarchy driving the K-horns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Congratulations on your purchase! I also have a pair of '71 Cornwall IIs with vertical horns in the bookmatched configuration (with Alnico drivers). As with your set up, I also have the CWs in front of a pr of Khorns with false corners. Somehow your system looks much more "finished" than mine - very nice! I noticed in your pic that your have the CWs set up with the PWK badges in the outside corners which would put the tweeters furthest apart. I was always under the impression that the CWs should be set up with the tweeters closest and woofers furthest apart (badges centered). Out of curiousity, did you place the CWs where you did because they sounded best like that or have you been informed otherwise? Thanks and happy listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 2, 2003 Author Share Posted April 2, 2003 JBryan, Thanks for your comments. I didn't know which way the Cornwalls were designed to be set-up so I guessed and I had a 50/50 chance of being right (and wrong). Do you have some documented information regarding proper placement? I would be interested in knowing which is correct. I haven't done any experimenting yet with reversing their positions. Do you have any photos of your speakers you could post? If anyone else has imformation which way the Cornwalls were designed to be oriented I would appreciate your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 I set them up the same way as you originally because I thought the CWs were symetrical (not book matched). Actually, I think I got the placement info via a search of this forum. A gentleman discussed his CWIIs and suggested the placement in that thread. If I remember right, he also knew why Klipsch offered them in vertical configuation in the first place. I'll look around and try to find it but I've always thought that in a generic set up, the tweeters usually are placed closer together than the woofers for better imaging (smaller vs. larger waves). I tried it the other way first and after finding the thread, realized my error and switched them around (at their weight, you want to keep the moving thing to a minimum). The image tightened up a bit but I wouldn't think of writing anything in stone. You may find that in your room, with your system the way you have them works best - have fun and I'll try to find that thread for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 In regard to the vertical orientation, I found this tidbit from HBDRbuilder... The age old problem with speaker cabinet design is getting each separate driver/horn to fire as close as possible from the same point of origin...along the same axis. As for the difference in what one hears from a cornwall with vertical horns in it laying on its side(which makes those horns become horizontal, by the way) vs. the cornwall with horizontal horns standing up...well, the design of the cabinet entails it be a baffle chamber, which, in order to achieve the desired results, places the woofer much farther from the midrange horn and tweeter horn...ie., farther off axis point of origin. In the horizontal horn cornwall, when the listener is in a sitting position, the top end is firing from a high point along a center axis even with the top of the listener's head or a bit higher, and the woofer is aimed much lower. In the vertical horn cornwall, when it is laid on its side(as intended), the horns become horizontal, giving the same horizontal dispersion as the other type, BUT, all the drivers are much closer on a vertical plane to the same axis point of origin, even though they are not so on the horizontal plane, thus...a different effect, since the tweeter and midrange aren't firing from a point at the top of the listener's head or higher...but instead are firing at the seated listener's center of mass...that is why in this model the horns are toward one corner and that corner is intended to be at the top in the laid-down configuration. Also, if one were to take that same vertical horned cornwall, and lay it on its OTHER side, where the horns were more toward the floor, it would present a different sound-staging effect, because the lenses of the horns would be firing lower down toward the listeners feet. If a pair of vertical-horned cornwalls had their drivers mounted in a mirror-image of each other, laying on their sides with the horns toward the top inside corner, but the woofers toward the outside walls in a corner, it would provide a nice balanced effect, but...these were not manufactured at a time when stereo was in its prime and therefore not made in matching mirror-imaged motorboard pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 ...and found this from Chris Robinson... ...the first Cornwalls were indeed "II"'s, which was basically an icon for the two HF, vertically-mounted horns. After they discontinued them (you needed to buy matched pairs which made production a little more complicated), they went to the Cornwall I's with the horizontal horns. I have a pair as well which I bought from the original owner last year, here in the Boston area. Prior to that (and concurrently for a while), I had a pair of 1985 vintage Cornwall I's ... I did some A/B comparisons and found the difference to be quite startling. For starters, the II's seem to have a wider HF imaging since the vertical orientation of the horns permits wider dispersion than a horizontal orientation (sounds counter-intuitive, I know). When you set them up, the PWK logos should go in the upper right (for right side) and upper left (for left side). IOW, the logos should be out be outboard in orientation. Secondly, the B series crossovers are a thing of beauty. They're very simple and lovely sounding. I'm sure they're still intact. They do very well with the Alnico magnets on your drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 That 'CDP' sitting on the floor is actually a POS DVD player. Who you trying to kid Ed? Everyone knows DVD players produce nothing but earbleed on horns. Shameful, just shameful. I should have bought two of those when I had the money. Cool how good stuff just sounds 'good', and it almost doesn't matter what it is as long as one doesn't cheat on the preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Dan-HO! tried them both ways - here's his findings... "...On another note, After reading one of your other posts a while back....., I tried swapping my mirrored II's around, so that the Horns were inbound (as you had stated something about that being the rec. positioning) and found that, at least in my listening room, to my ears....., I went from having FANTASTIC (your setting in the same room with the artist.....) "Imaging", to nearly none (it was much more like you were just listening to a couple of stereo spkr's in a room....). Thus I pulled the 2 wheeled hand truck, back into the house, and swapped 'em back to Horn's outbound (don't like to drag those metal feet across our tile floor...., and I sure don't lift these without some form of assistance....)." To each his own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Here's another tip from Chris Robinson... "Wes, I have a pair of the old Cornwalls like you with the vertical mids and tweeters. The thing behind the emblem is as follows ... the lefthand speaker has the emblem on the left, and the righthand speaker has the emblem on the right. This is designed to give the speakers the widest possible soundstage, since LF is omni-directional, and the HF is not. Might as well put the upper frequencies apart from each other. BTW, the vertical mounting of the horns gives the widest dispersion, contrary to conventional wisdom. The narrow dimension (in this case, width) of the horn gives the widest dispersion, and the widest dimension gives the narrowist. If the horn is oriented vertically, you get wide dispersion of the sound. That's why so many people with the old CW "II"'s swear by the imaging of these speakers, which I also testify as being superb." And ShapeShifter responded... "Yes, the imaging of the vertical II's is indeed superb. My greatest pleasure is the level of detail produced in the mid & high freq range. I did a side by side comparison with my 85 I's and the verticals are hands down champs. With their biggest advantage, at least to me, being the mid/high range. Slight advantage in the low freq area. Regarding the emblem placement. I remembered there were previous discussions in this forum regarding their placement, and recalled someone stating that their pair had the emblems mounted opposite in corners to their verticle horns. I had to run several searches but here's the link to the thread and the quoted post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 That's all I could find from a quick search. Sorry for taking up so much space and I couldn't find the original thread I referred to but I hope you can get something from the above. Obviously, its been tried both ways with varying degrees of success and differing opiions. I did notice a couple of threads that mentioned the pointer cards on the rear of the speaker and that should help you determine the proper or rather, recommended placement but as always, it falls to your ears to make the final determination. BTW, have you listened to the Khorns with the CWs in front. In my room, the CWs block the bass cabinet and the lower frequencies are noticably diminished. I've got to find another spot for them or convince by wife's cousin to consider taking them instead of a pair of Heresy's I found for him. If I can't come up with any other options, their days under my roof may be numbered. My wife has been very patient with my ever-expanding stock of Klipsch speakers but I'm finally coming around to her contention that I can only listen to one pair at a time and the rest just take up a lot of space. They do sound good though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Oh, it's at times like these that I'm glad to be single again! The WAF is a hard thing to get around, it seems. Sorry ladies, but my Cornwalls come with me, and no...you cannot put frames, potted plants, and other nick-nacks on top of my loudspeakers! Ever! It's MY WAY, or the HIGHWAY! Which is why I'm still single... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Jeez Jim, With that attitude and your keen sense of negotiation and compromise, its no wonder that you're "single again" - just kidding. Actually my wife has been very supportive and extremely tolerant of my hobby/obsession (she may read this). She also has her quirks of course and is the "techie" around here - buying and setting up alI the computer and office gear. Heck, she's the only one in the house that actually enjoys reading the manuals (before attempting installation). Its nice to have in-house technical support but to be honest, I don't know how I might react if she were constantly buying computers and copiers that caught her fancy. She's given me my "playroom" which I have filled to the brim with guitars, amps, cameras and audio gear. I'm sure she's aware that it's a guy thing but its never been a problem with her. As a matter of fact, I had the Cornwalls in the room for weeks before she even noticed them and once she did, she said she liked them but thought the Khorns sounded better - clever girl. For my part, I just don't look in her closet and all is well with the world. She appreciates good audio gear and probably has better hearing than me so I get her opinion whenever she's available and I consider myself very lucky to be with her (still reading dear?). Sorry for the rant and happy listening in your cold, dark and lonely room (again, I'm kidding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 JBryan, LOL! You are a really lucky man having a loving and compassionate wife like yours (is she still reading?)...Seriously, I'm not "that" bad, of course. Having never been married though, I don't really know if I could (or would) change my lifestyle because of the WAF, especially at my age. Granted, most wives are pretty tollerant to their husband's hobbies; my brother's wife is very cool about his rather expensive audio/auto/car audio hobbies he has, and because of that, he's cool about her vintage furniture/clothing collection! Now, his first wife always nagged him and how much money he spent (and they weren't hurting for cash...he made great money and so did she, but he was only to save all his cash like she did, and wasn't allowed to waste it on frivelous things like cars and audio...which is why he's with his second wife). But at 40, I'm kinda set in my ways. I enjoy listening to my music at rather high levels, and I don't even allow my cats to jump up on my Cornwalls, let alone a lamp or picture frames. So I guess I'll go back to my dark, gloomy, no-love-in-any-room house and read more threads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 JT- You need a wife like mine - she loves the antique look of the old Heritage! We call our seven Klipsch "our kids" - we love them as if they were!!! Regarding the Cornwall comparisons: I would be very curious to hear a "showdown" pitting the original alnico Cornwalls against the old alnico Cornwall 2s. Any comparison between the ferrite and the verticals involves the added variable of alnico vs. ferrite drivers. As the owner of both the Cornwall II (ferrite '88s) and the Cornwall (alnico '76), I can state from experience that these are not the same! The question is, how much difference do the vertical horns make - and this would be more easily discerned by pitting the alnicos against each other - leaving the ferriutes out of the mix. I plan to write a review of the ferrite vs. alnico Cornwalls (both standard horizontal models), used in both the HT and 2 channel setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted April 2, 2003 Author Share Posted April 2, 2003 JBryan, Thanks for all the great information! I haven't had time to do much searching of the forum archives, and this "new and improved" forum isn't really "search friendly", for me at least. I will certainly be doing some serious listening in the near future. As always though, it all comes down to personal preferences in your own system in your room! Dean, You noticed! IMHO the Sony S9000ES is an impressive progressive scan DVD player bundled with a great bang for the buck CD/SACD player! Here it is playing Johnny Lang's Lie to Me CD This is really a great multi player that can be had in the $650-$700 range now, originally priced at $1500. I recommended it to someone in the HT forum a little while ago but it was summarily dismissed because it is a Sony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 ---------------- On 4/2/2003 6:39:51 PM edster00 wrote: ..."I recommended it to someone in the HT forum a little while ago but it was summarily dismissed because it is a Sony." ---------------- That's a shame...Sony makes pretty good equipment! I still have a Sony VHS Hi-Fi video cassette recorder I bought in '89 that still operates to this day! I also owned a pro Sony DAT recorder, a never-installed car CD/tuner head unit, pro closed-ear headphones, the original Discman from the late '80's, and my pride 'n' joy...my first Sony transistor AM radio from the mid '60's (and it still works as well). Dismiss Sony indeed...these anti-Sony crybabies aren't fit to eat my shorts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 That machine is a giant killer. Several things set it apart from most of what is out there. 1. It was developed by Sony's video shop -- not the audio guys, and they were working independantly. Competitive spirit here pushed out a machine that many favored over the 777. Bruce Edgar used (uses?) it to demo his monster setup. 2. It's a two-channel only deck. So, the entire design is worked around 2 channels instead of 5. Less is more. There is almost 15 pounds of chassis, and the power supply caps are almost as big as what I've seen in most amps. Almost 30 pounds total. 3) It's beautiful. Exudes quality, and just sounds great. Did you ever play with the filter settings? Sony's little inside joke on 'audiophile' decks. I call the 'Soft' setting the 'Rega Planet Setting'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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