just_me_the_dude Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 There are a lot of confusion in regards to how to set the Mains, Center and Surround speakers to Large or Small in a Receiver regardless if its THX 80 Hz or the standard 100 Hz. I currently set all my speakers to large since every speaker is designed for a frequency response and everything rolls off down the subwoofer. My question is why is it recomended to set the CENTER and SURROUND to small where you can have a better sound leaving it on Large? I know it will be less stress for the Receiver if everything is set to small but other than that what else would it be? My speakers are RF3, RC3 and RS3 with a KSW-10. If anyone can comment on this I will greatly appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 The center and surround speakers are generally smaller than the mains, and generally only need to play speech to be most effective. So, you can cross them over higher to take some of the strain off of them. Notice most centers and surrounds don't go as low, aren't as sensitive, and do not have as big of woofers in them. So, they are more or less required to work harder tham the mains in a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imasndtek Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Though it may be reccommended to have the center, and surrounds set to small, it is definitely not the rule. If it sounds better to you set to large, then by all means set it to large. Let your ears tell you what to set the size of the speakers at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Just keep in mind that by setting them to large, that speaker is getting the full spectrum whether it can reproduce it or not. Granted, there probably isn't tons of lower-to-mid bass in the center and surrounds, but any content that does fall below the response of the speaker is lost, not sent to the sub, when you have the channel set to large. dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 you have small speaks for center and sat's, so you would do best to set them to small, yes you do get fuller sound setting at large, but you are sending the bassier sounds that your speakers are not handling well to them anyway, set your center and sat's to small and allow the sub to do its work. i am just the opposite, my speaks are big, very bassy, so i set the speaks to large, and the crossover to about 60 and that way my poor sub gets some rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 ---------------- On 4/29/2003 6:41:29 PM dougdrake wrote: Just keep in mind that by setting them to large, that speaker is getting the full spectrum whether it can reproduce it or not. Granted, there probably isn't tons of lower-to-mid bass in the center and surrounds, but any content that does fall below the response of the speaker is lost, not sent to the sub, when you have the channel set to large. dd ---------------- I have a big question on this. When I set my Onkyo up, I set it for sub on, all speakers to large. But if I unplug the subs, the main speakers still have no bass. I can only get full range from the mains if I set the sub to off. After reading your post above, I checked the Dolby site, & found this: "Dolby Digital programs can deliver surround sound with five discrete full-range channelsleft, center, right, left surround, and right surroundplus a sixth channel for those powerful low-frequency effects (LFE) that are felt more than heard in movie theaters." I got this here: http://www.dolby.com/tech/co.br.0103.DDFAQ.html#q4 I questioned Onkyo tech suppt about this, & their reply was that it was normal. Who do I believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 When I set all my speakers to large I get everthing to them all. I have full range towers in the rear and there is alot of bass in the rear. you can really tell with music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 cyclone - Not sure what you mean when you say that your mains have "no bass" when the sub is set to ON. IOW, at what point are they not producing bass - below 40hz, 50hz, 80hz, 30hz? What are you using for a program source to test the behavior when you unplug the sub? If it is a source that has most of its low bass in the .1 channel, then there isn't much bass being sent to the mains anyway. If you provide a link to the Onkyo owner's manual, perhaps we can see what is happening here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 http://www.onkyousa.com/redirect_own_manual.cfm?file=tx-ds777-E.pdf Its a PDF... speaker setup starts on page 19 for the on screen setup. When I go through it..(pg 19, step 4) if I set all speakers for THX.. all speakers go to small, & there are no other settings. So I use large for all speakers, sub on. There is no further setting for crossover points etc. The only way I know is if I unplug the subs. With the sub setting on, speakers set to large, I have very little bass from all speakers. With the sub setting off (speakers forced to large), I have all the bass from all speakers. This is with any source I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 BTW .. here is the reply I got from Onkyo! Thank You for contacting Onkyo USA Product Support. I'm sorry there is not. It would not be home theater if the receiver was to be set up that way. Again, thank you for contacting Onkyo USA Product Support, if you need further Assistance feel free to call us at 800-229-1687. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Cyclonecj, I think your lack of bass is mostly due to the source material, as it really varies alot from one to the next... and what you are hearing when you've set it up with the sub on is probably what the sound engineer intended. Here is my opinion of what is going on: 1) all speakers set to large and sub ON: each channel is receiving what was intended by the sound engineer. You are telling the receiver that your all your speakers can full frequency and you have a sub which can cover the LFE (20Hz to 120Hz I think). Any overlap mixed into the source will appear as well. 2) all speakers set to large and sub OFF: each channel is receiving what was intended by the sound engineer... but now since you "don't have a sub" the LFE is redistributed in the other channels. It's only this redistribution which will vary from one receiver to the next that is: LFE separated between all channels set to large, or perhaps just to the front two. This would be why you here a lot more bass from the speakers with this setting. As for "just_me_the_dude"'s original question of whether you should set your speakers to large of small, there is an interesting editorial on this at The Secrets of Home Theather and HiFi at the following address: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_3/feature-article-multiple-crossovers-9-2002.html I may not agree with all his points (I've set all my channels to large), but it is an informative read that will give an insite to how everything is split up and redirected. later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 ---------------- On 4/30/2003 11:22:26 AM cyclonecj wrote: I'm sorry there is not. It would not be home theater if the receiver was to be set up that way. ---------------- What the heck does THAT mean? Sheesh... Anyway, it SOUNDS to me like your receiver is treating your speakers like small when you say sub-YES regardless of how you set them (large or small). Otherwise, "It would not be home theater..." right? (LOL). I'm just guessing on this. The manual is no help. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 same guy who translated: "All your bass are belong to us" works at Onkyo... Rob _________________________________________________________ ref: http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/index.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me_the_dude Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me_the_dude Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 Thanks to all that shared their opinion, greatly appreciated. Happy Listening to you all!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 ---------------- On 4/30/2003 1:49:36 PM formica wrote: Cyclonecj, I think your lack of bass is mostly due to the source material, ---------------- It seems to me that I tried a few different settings & sources, but I am not sure. It has been a while. I will try this again tonight when I get home. Except for direct mode, I think stereo mode will give me the same the same effect. And your right... the manual is no help. It does not even say what the crossover setting is. Even the $129 Pioneer 411 in my family room has 3 crossover settings. Thanks... More to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earle Decker Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I just bought a pair of Klipsch KG 5.2's. I now have 5.2's as my mains and surrounds and 4.2's as center surrounds. My center is a KG 2.2v. The preamp is a Rotel 1055, with a Rotel 985mkII and a RB 1070 powering the speakers. Subs are 2 SVS 20-39's and a 25-31PCi. The Rotel 1055 allows the subs to crossed over at 40hz, 60hz, and 80hz. It does go higher but I have no need of the higher frequencies. I currently have the speakers set to small with a 40hz xover. With this setting nearly all room mode issues are gone. The problem is the KG 2.2 is not capable of playing down to 40hz. The other speakers have no problem going down to 40hz in my room. I wish the Rotel had the Outlaw or HK triple crossover. I am trying a sub on the center channel. I figured any cheap sub can play down to 40hz(where my speakers are HP'ed). I just blended the sub by ear in 7 channel stereo with all other speakers unplugged. it makes a differnce, the front seems to have alittle more punch with the sub. Anyone have any thoughts. Earle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me_the_dude Posted May 1, 2003 Author Share Posted May 1, 2003 I have tried to set my mains for LARGE, the Center and Surrounds to SMALL it did get a better bottom end watching movies. But when I play music I think its better to have all speakers set to Large. I'm not sure if there is any Receiver out there that can be pre-set the settings for every input where in DVD source the setting for the mains are Large and Small for the rest and when the source is CD the speakers are all pre-set to Large. Does anybody know a Receiver or Pre-Pro that does this? Thanks dudes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 ---------------- On 5/1/2003 9:34:17 AM just_me_the_dude wrote: I'm not sure if there is any Receiver out there that can be pre-set the settings for every input where in DVD source the setting for the mains are Large and Small for the rest and when the source is CD the speakers are all pre-set to Large. Does anybody know a Receiver or Pre-Pro that does this? Thanks dudes ---------------- When I switch to any music source, I use direct mode, so I am only listening to the Adcom driving the Belle's. Subs & surrounds are all off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I think using an additional small sub with your center an excellent compromise that will allow you to use all your speakers on the same low x-over setting. I'm guessing you'll feed to sub the > 40Hz frequency signal and use it's built in x-over to highpass your centre? ---------------- I figured any cheap sub can play down to 40hz ---------------- The center sub will have to play quite an audible range of low frequencies... I would avoid a bandpass sub as it's tuning may be totally wrong for your system... try to find a sealed sub which will honestly extend to 30-35Hz (a little overlap into the x-over slope is always good) and keep it pretty close to the centre. I'm not overly familiar with the KG 5.2's but I think they would sound quite nice even if all set to large. When I eventually do build a centre, I'll probably go a similar route as you... Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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