How would the Klipsch KPT684 be as a home sub

[artto]

I want this sub too. Right now I am running the Klipsch Chorus IIs with the Forte IIs on top of them. My room, being a basement with brick walls needs alot more bass reinforcement. The Velodyne HGS 18 will NOT cut it (a beastly sub it is). Plus I want to feel the bass big time when playing concert dvd's.

What all do I need to hook up to my Harman Kardon receiver?

Pro amp. Pre amp? Crossover? Can I not go from the receivers subwoofer out to the pro amp's input? What type of EQ? An EQ just for bass? I like to leave it all flat and not add anything to the signal if possible. Crazy?

Ideas? thanks!

Wow. You've really been digging around! At first I thought MooN was back, as I haven't seen him around here in quite a while.

But, as Tom (Quiet Hollow) pointed out..........

And beyond that, I'm not sure that what you think you're looking for is really what you're looking for. That "feel the bass" thing and the "kick in the chest" type of thing you get at live rock concerts is not in the "subwoofer" range. Those sounds aremuch higher up. Pro audio "subs" aren't typically in the same league as high-end audio subs as far as the very deep low frequency response goes.

Take a look at the KPT684 specs. The -4dB down point is at 34Hz, down -10dB at 25Hz (-10dB = half as loud as our ears hear it, maybe even less than half as loud at those low frequencies) .

As for what it takes to get it as loud as you want it just keep in mind that every 3dB increase requires a doubling of power output. You can reach a point of diminishing returns very quickly. Many of the pro audio concert systems are using 10's or even hundreds of thousands of watts. And their main concern is also one of coverage and "throw distance". I've played in many small to medium size clubs where the stage monitors alone use 10,000 to 15,000 watts or more.

Just for reference, my system has two Klipschorns and a Belle Klipsch across the front. The Klipschorns being fully horn loaded and designed for 1/8 space basically have the same output as a "regular" bass speaker 8 times it's size, and maybe 4 times for the Belle. That's 8+8+4=20 fifteen inch drivers (if they were not horn loaded and not 1/8 space design). And then there's my subwoofers, four of them with two 15's each. 8+8+4+8= the equivalent of 28 drivers in a 20x30x8 foot room with 200 watts per speaker available on the mains (600watts) and 2500watts/6000 peak on the subs.

I like low distortion, not necessarily ear splitting sound levels.

So choose your poison. Just be aware that it may require something like four to 8 or more of those KPT684.

EDIT: I see Chris posted something in the meantime. His suggestion is also a possible solution although you still may require two of those. On a personal note (pun intended) I don't like the sound of the Danley tapped horn subs. The Fritzmaurice horns, from what I've seen would also require a lot of EQing to achieve what I was looking for, and for me, would be much difficult to integrate into my system for a number of reasons which I've posted elswhere previously. But a lot people seem to like the Danleys and Fritzmaurice designs. I find them somewhat compressed sounding and without the "musical" extension I'm looking for. They seem better suited to HT IMHO.

[dtximages]

I hope this pdf uploaded. It was the best I could do for now as far as room drawings.

Home Theater Drawing.pdf

Home Theater Drawing.pdf

Home Theater Drawing.pdf

Home Theater Drawing.pdf

[Chris A]

I hope this pdf uploaded. It was the best I could do for now as far as room drawings.

I'd try putting the sub in the right-front corner - you'll get at least a 3 dB gain and a lot more lf extension with a smoother FR. You could also try placing the same model of sub in the back corners of the room - I wouldn't use a different model of sub if you are thinking about doubling- or tripling-up, since different subs will have different group delay vs. frequency curves.

I still believe that the Danley designs would require only one unit--in a corner of the room. You want to have all the room modes transfer-active. See enclosed article.

excerpts from Subwoofers in Small Listening Rooms.pdf

Edited November 6, 2013 by Cask05

[dtximages]

Yeah I understand these do not play effectively down below 30hz or so. I basically want it to sound like a club. Maybe a little better than that haha. But I have the party lights up in the ceiling and fog machine etc. I was a bachelor until very recently and no kids too btw haha!

Anyway, this is just a fun project and Ive never been happy with my bass in this room. I don't want to get into too much science or too much EQ'ing if I can avoid it. But if that's what it takes, this might be a waste of time until I can do it right.

Heck ive thought about just buying a full PA system with a mixer etc.

[Chris A]

I don't want to get into too much science or too much EQ'ing if I can avoid it.

Any frequency band below about 150-200 Hz (i.e., the Schroeder frequency for your particular room) will require some sort of EQing due to the effects of boundary gain vs. frequency. Most people handle this with an AV processor or receiver that has EQ capability built in. I use Crown XTi-1000 amplifiers with built-in DSP on the SPUDs, and an EV Dx38 on my Jubs to do the EQing.

 

The Danley TH-SPUD design has absolutely flat FR down to 17 Hz when measured outside on the ground, but in my room requires negative gain (attenuating) PEQ filters around 38 Hz to keep things flat in-room. I cross over at 40 Hz to the Jub bass bins using a steep-slope Linkwitz-Riley crossover.

 

The following figure is from Room EQ Wizard (REW) and a calibrated microphone in my listening room. The Schroeder frequency (i.e., transition frequency into the sparse-room mode region) for my room is ~100 Hz. The red trace represents the combined response of the two TH-SPUDs (no EQ) in the corners behind the Jubilees, the dark green trace is the EQed result, and the light green trace is the in-room response of my Jubilees with no EQ:

 

Chris

Edited September 3, 2015 by Chris A

[dtximages]

Ok this is all over my head and I want to know alot more about pro audio and all these instruments and components yall are using. I need to find the best sound guy in Birmingham and hang around him and his gigs for a while haha.

Is church sound a good place to start? The only problem with church sound is it's never loud enough or you're rarely pushing anything to a point where the details matter (most churches). Also, church's seem to keep the same equipment and never change, so I'm not sure what I wanna do. Anyone want to start up a concert sound business? I'll just sit back and learn haha.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Is church sound a good place to start?

No. Start at home, you have enough equipment there and it's easier to get to at your leisure.

The only problem with church sound is it's never loud enough or you're rarely pushing anything to a point where the details matter (most churches).

[bs] Normal levels will provide you with all the acoustic information you need. In fact, you can learn a ton by listening to some earbuds or cans.

I'll keep this short and sweet because we're highkacking the crap out of the OP's ancient thread.

As far your system is concerned. Look at your mains, pick your favorite cabs, and move the other pair to somewhere else in the house (or storage if you have to). Stacking things are hurting the sound. Turn the filter knob on the subwoofer down to the lowest frequency as it will go for now.

If you're interested in sound, start playing around more with your Heresies and an old reciever (preferably one with built-in EQ)....Take'em outside for a listen, then put 'em up along side the house. Try stacking them. Take one and put it on a high chair, etc etc.... There's a whole lot of physics going on there and the trick is to link together what you read in the books with what you hear.[8]