fabulousfrankie Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 As most know, Tom Vodhanel of SVS originally started this list to objectively compare subwoofers. I just copied his post and updated the info as best I could. If you have more figures from Tom Nousaine’s 7500ft^3 room please email me the info at frankrcarter@gmail.com. I would also appreciate an email if you find inaccuracies. CLICK HERE FOR THE LIST Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 this also shows that the RSW-15 is more powerful that most people think down low.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 To all those who dismiss the "weak"RSW15 I say "IN YOUR FACE PUNKS" HA HA HA Too funny,I wish the list included a Aerial SW12 and Revel B15,that would be too funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I don't konw why everyone thinks it's so weak. sure, the 20hz zone may not be as powerful as the 30 hz, but thats like saying a 10 ton atombomb is weak just because a 20 ton bomb will level everything in twice as big of a radius. the RSW-15 is still very potent down low.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 what most do not realize Tom has the highest regardsfor the Klipsch products. when I was deciding on my next sub Tom recommended the RSW15 as an alternative choice. At the time is was out of my price range. If I could have afforded the rsw the next problem was the real estate. That is the main reason I selected the svs tube. But the rsw-15 was on the short list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 Also, I read some very old posts of Tom's and he has uses Klipsch Legend speakers for his HT. Next week I will too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 I got bored... The list I started with had 84 subs The list I just posted has 129 subs. This means I added 45 to the list I found here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 ---------------- On 8/12/2003 9:37:35 PM fabulousfrankie wrote: Also, I read some very old posts of Tom's and he has uses Klipsch Legend speakers for his HT. Next week I will too . ---------------- Thanks for the updated list... there seems to be quite a few tom's involved in the tom-foolery... Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 Got my new S&V mag in the mail today so I added 13 to the list. Here they are if you dont want to search for them in the list: $599 Velodyne CHT-15 107.3dB / 25hz~92dB__32hz~108.4dB(105.1dB) $799 JBL S120PII 104.4dB / 25hz~86.1dB__32hz-108.8dB(102.8) Atlantic Technology 170PBM(package) 100dB / 25hz~80dB $699 M&K V76 98.8dB / 16hz~72dB__25hz~87.4dB(101.5dB) $1000 B&W ASW675(EQ mode A) 98.6dB / 16hz~73dB__25hz~85.9dB(96.9dB) $449 PSB Subsonic 5i 98.1dB / 25hz~87dB__32hz~99.3dB (97.1dB) $399 Canton AS20SC 96.7dB / 32hz~87.7dB $1690 Bag End Infrasub-12 96.1dB / 16hz~65dB__25hz~80.1dB(92.7) Wharfedale PC DX12 96dB / 32hz~89dB Celestion S20(package) 95dB / 25hz~82dB $425 Atlantic Technology T70.1PBM 94.7dB / 25hz~82.2dB__32hz~94.1dB(92.5dB) $850 Pinnacle Baby Boomer 93.2dB / 20hz~74dB__25hz~81.7dB(90.5) $800 Cambridge SW Newton P500 90.8dB / 25hz~70.3__91.6dB(86.9) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 I added one more sub today. DIYcable and Adire audio have partnered up to produce a new line of subwoofers being sold under the name Exodus Audio. It is a sealed Tumult based subwoofer with a 1000W Keiga plate amp. I'm not exactly sure what the name is but I've emailed Kevin Haskins of DIYcable to get that. Here are some links to more information on the sub: http://www.diycable.com/main/default.php http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=5013 Here are it's numbers compared with the top performing subwoofers in the list: Stryke Power 15 prototype 115.3 / 16hz~99dB__25hz~106dB<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Klipsch RSW-15 112dB / 20hz~97dB__112dB~32hz Velodyne F1800 MkII 111.9dB / Exodus Audios flagship 111.3 / 20hz~93dB__25hz~104.8(111.25dB) SVS 20-39CS(not ISD)&Fidek FPA-3002 - 109.5 / 20hz~91db__25hz~105.8 Velodyne FSR15 - 109.1 / 16hz~90.1__25hz~103.1 Klipsch KSW300 - 109dB / 25hz~92dB (107.25dB) Mission 700as - 108.1dB / 25hz~102dB(106.8dB) BW asw1000 - 107.9dB / 25hz~96dB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 too bad he doesn't give retial prices and Frequency response curves, as Brain Weatherhead's excellent article, Subwoofers Under the Christmas Tree, (December, 2001)does, then we could calculate "shake values" for output at 20Hz, and , most importantly which sub gives the most output at 20Hz for the lowest price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 ---------------- On 10/7/2003 10:12:22 AM Colin wrote: too bad he doesn't give retial prices and Frequency response curves, as Brain Weatherhead's excellent article, Subwoofers Under the Christmas Tree, (December, 2001)does, then we could calculate "shake values" for output at 20Hz, and , most importantly which sub gives the most output at 20Hz for the lowest price! ---------------- In all the S&V test Nousaine does there is a graph of it's response and finding the retail prices also shouldn't be too hard using google. Comparing any of the numbers from this list to anything else is useless. Room dimensions, subwoofer location, mic position, and testing methods are all different so you really can't compare the two. Weatherhead didn't use anything to determine distortion while Nousaine uses a 10% distortion limit for all his numbers because this is claimed to be the point where distortion becomes audible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Every loudspeaker should come with its own frequency response and impedance curve. Subs are no exceptions. Using Frankies list with the 25Hz outputs and the retail prices, you CAN calculate a 25Hz shake to price ratio though. This short list, combined with Brians samples, shows that the lowest cost per 20Hz shake is the lowly KSW-15, with the tall SVS tubes coming a powerful 110db second. If you are willing to accept 5Hz less bass output (at the same mediocre 87 SPL), then the PSB Subsonic 5i is the best value. All other things assumed to be equal, this sub puts out more low output for less money than any of the subs compared here today. You get more bang for the buck. The Velodyne CHT-15 comes in second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 I just got a copy of the latest Home Theater mag and they tested the an RB-75 based system with the RSW-15. Unfortunately it was tested separately from the subs in their extremely detailed "Bass Bustin' Out All Over" article which is the best subwoofer article I've ever seen. I scanned the mag and uploaded the measurement section of the Klipsch article for those interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaZero Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Velodyne CHT-15 vs Klipsch KSW-15 I call it the low cost bang for buck fight, tell me fellow audio lovers...who would win? (be it clairty, depth, slam, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 >>>too bad he doesn't give retial prices and Frequency response curves,<<< Retail pricing is easy enough to find though, and it is always subject to changes. Remember, in published reviews...there can be many months between the manufacturer sending the product in for review and the review hitting the book stores. I do agree on the response curves. Nousaine does a complete set (usually both nearfield and in room) for each review. That is one very important advantage for actual published reviews(from Nousaine) imo. If a company just pays Tom Nousaine to measure the unit...they can pick and choose which info they want the public to see. If you have a product actually being reviewed...ALL the data is published right in the magazine for everyone to see...warts and all.. I don't see this new unit being such a big deal...about the same as the Klipsch rsw15 which you can get for $1200-1500 almost anywhere now right..and the rsw15 actually kicks it @20hz? Tom V. SVS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 "the RSW-15 actually kicks it at 20 hz?" yes, it does. it plays plenty loud at 20hz, people seem to think it's weak at 20 just because it's output at 20 is less than it's output at 30hz. it's like taking a Desert Eagle .50 cal magnum hand gun, and saying just because the slug energy at 20 yards is less than it is at 20 feet, it must be weak and non-lethal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 Here's some info I got in an email from Kevin Haskins of DIYcable regarding this subwoofer. "The product is our first under the Exodus Audio name. Many more to come all using Adire Audio XBL^2 enabled motors for bass, midrange & tweeter where it significantly cuts down on motor based distortion. The name for the sub tested is the WMD 15" (weapon of mass destruction) and it will retail for $1350 direct from us. The design goals where small, musical with tons of output for a price that nobody else on the planet can beat. Size of the box is 17.75" x 17.75" x 24" using sealed box with Qtc of about .69-.7 As you can see from the test we have some good output but we think we can get more with a better amplifier. In our testing the amplifier starts to clip before we get any significant distortion from the driver. We are in the process of developing our own amplifier with more power and a two band parametric EQ to allow the user to extend the current low end which is not EQed. From our guestimates we have another 2-3db to add the Nouisane numbers. The amp would also feature a better crossover section (steeper with more variability) and an RF remote controlling both volume and crossover point. The first units with the Kiega amp will be available to ship shortly. Let me know if you need any other info. Thanks, Kevin Haskins " From talking with someone else, I think the power is suppossed to be bumped up to 1600W from 1000W. Hey Tom, Would you be able to guess at how a Nousained PB2 Plus would do in the 25-63hz average based on the original 20-39CS you guys sent to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 "Many more to come all using Adire Audio XBL^2 enabled motors for bass, midrange & tweeter where it significantly cuts down on motor based distortion." I see clear and real gains in woofer when the XBL^2 is used,no question.Woofers and subwoofer woofers must have a long throw and XBL^2 works wonders. But in tweeters!? LOL Anyone knows the tweeter cone or dome piston moves so little(has a travel so small)even XBL^5 enabled the gain will not be audible.I dare them to prove in real tests XBL^2 will help tweeters.What is next...supertweeters.Sound like Acoustic Mess techno babble to me.Unless proven in use,and measured. Oh yeah I have this DyneFocaSeas Ubber Tweetah using the XBL^8 technology,it has so little distortion it...cannot be heard. Dynaudio,Focal and Accuton best tweeters add so little distortion any so called "significant" reduction in distortion is techno babble. My four cents(worth a fortune and XBL^5 enabled!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 ---------------- On 10/7/2003 7:22:26 PM TheEAR wrote: LOL Anyone knows the tweeter cone or dome piston moves so little(has a travel so small)even XBL^5 enabled the gain will not be audible. ---------------- I share the little green elf's opinion on XBL... which seems to be swung around like a big walking stick (XBL and not the elf ). My understanding of it's function is to keep the cone's travel under control (keep it linear) which only becomes a factor if the driver has a large excursion. I don't see how a mid range or a tweeter would benefit significantly from this. These limitations are not new, and PW Klipsch's theory on the same subject was along the lines of "high efficiency and low excursion" to keep the driver well within linear range.... such as in the Khorn. Later... Rob PS: Wasn't Kevin Haskins the drummer for Bauhaus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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