Allan Songer Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I avoid ANYTHING made in China if I can help it (which is getting harder harder). The comment about the 10 year old chained to the workbench isn't far from the truth. I have a good pal who spen 5 years in China working for McDonnell-Douglas (RIP) and he has stories that will turn your stomach. Because the Chinese governemnt is so happily financing our spiriling-out-of-control debt we turn the blind eye toward these atrocities. I am so ashamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 ---------------- On 8/20/2003 10:28:56 AM mobile homeless wrote: Indeed. A 6SN7 SRPP is a 6SN7 SRPP. You cant argue with that logic. Unfortunately, you can argue with the fact that with a different layout, parts selections, grounding decisions, and setup, you can run into TWO 6SN7 SRPP that sound ungodly different, one emitting hum like a monkey on Ibogaine and the other doing lord knows what! As you know, the implementation, parts matching, and layout choices can bring different results, bringing frustration and joy in a 24 hour period. Dont ask how I know this as working with your moody French Quebec silly putty mind would bring ultimate elastion and near bombastic DEFEAT, all within the time it takes to read the NY Times end to end! Lordy. I still have nightmares and cold sweats! Your observation concerning the contruction after the purchase makes serious sense, however. It's probably a given, even including the chained 10 yr old tike with solder burns... kh ---------------- My comments were more toward a similar "sonic signature" between 6SN7 SRPP preamps. The circuit is the biggest responsible for the sound. Given a good circuit (in my opinion a SRPP circuit is such a thing) then I feel parts choice, layout, grounding scheme will make the difference between the "OK" and the "sublime" (considering sonic, nuances and noise issue altogether). The regulation he uses in the PSU maybe a major factor in this particular preamp. Since he uses tube regulation I have some hope it can avoid the "mechanical sound" that cheap SS regulation can plague the sound with (just a hunch tough). What I meant here is that I feel that at $250 USD this should be a near no-brainer for anyone willing to have fun with experimentation. Is it perfect out of the box? Probably not but I am pretty convince that with a little work this might be a really nice unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 Yeah, well that is a good point, Allan, including the spiraling, out of control, debt. I will say that I doubt this goon is really using the 10yr old in FreeBase fashion, unless it's his OWN 10yr old! He seems like a one man operation and sells a few a month if that many. Still, your point is well-taken. Give him some time... Brian from DIY Supply lives in Hong Kong and sells some pretty nice stuff, including the Consonance kits that are an excellent buy. I was thinking of asking him about how close he is to the children. Perhaps it's getting a bit better after some horrible publicity pointed China's way. You never know what is going on sadly enough. And one of the wonderful things about traveling abroad is you dont see the US in the news either! A month in Italy rendered me free of Bush's confused mug as well as strip malls, billboards, and Jiffy Lubes.... On return, I see they are STILL here...including said mug. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Man, I hope he did use 'used' parts -- I hate the thought of having to go through break-in again. There was one feedback where he was accused of this, but his response was not one of passive denial -- but of outrage. Liars typically try to play it cool. Indignation usually means the truth. The rest of the feedback is rather impressive -- and I went through just about all of it before making the purchase. At $300 shipped -- I felt it was hard to go completely wrong with this one. At any rate, even if the parts were 'used', it wouldn't really matter unless they were bad or damaged parts. The circuit and parts layout are such that I can get my hands and iron in there -- and so seemed like a good candidate for tweaking by yours truly if need be. The chassis is big enough that all of the parts and wiring have some room to breathe. I also appreciate the power transformer being far removed from the action. The thing is twin choked, the chassis is stainless steel instead of aluminum (good for RF rejection) -- and I expect all of these things together to make for a quiet unit. However, a little bit of noise doesn't really bother me -- I am primarily concerned with the sound. The circuit is similiar to the AE-3 DJH which goes for $1200, and this thing goes the extra mile by adding a stronger rectifier, tubed power regulation, and the discrete stepped attenuator. I also decided to help it along a little by ordering some nice NOS for it. Uh... my total investment in NOS was more than half again as much as I spent on the preamp. Talk about a painful reality. 6SN7W JAN Sylvania blackplate clearglass GZ30 Amperex (Holland) OC3 Sylvania OD3 RCA ST-shape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 As for the shipping delay, my guess is that he builds the unit after he sell it on eBay (or have them built by a 10 year boy chained on the working bench in his basement... Ouch. Actually, my unit was shipped within three days after my Bidpay payment. I do have tracking numbers, and he uses Chinese Parcel Post. Average delivery time is 18 working days. The honorable Mr. 'Edmund' Lam builds these himself, along with a very cool looking 300B SET amp you see out there occasionally. You guys are brutal. Yeah, I remember the Apollos. Very cool. I might have hung on to those a little longer if the bottom hadn't of dropped out at home. The fact that Ron Welborne acted like such an *** on his forum in regards to some questions I had didn't help any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 20, 2003 Author Share Posted August 20, 2003 Jean-Francois, as I liked to say (it sounds so much more dignified; sure looks better in a logo...heh), resent this link to the YS-Audio loon, ironically enough, a link I had sent him many months ago, but we both forget things like links and I know he doesnt visit them half the time anyway... But I digress... Ok, my ole buddy Jeffu...I mean Jean-Francois, sent the link to the YS-Audio loon's HISTORY page in his site. Lordy...Quite a number of experiments there! Take a look. It's entertaining and surely worth another 20 minutes of wasted time looking at each exploded view. I know I enjoyed the extra procrastination! Click below and select "HISTORY" in the nav section. YS-Audio Site - See History Link kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 ---------------- On 8/20/2003 12:41:59 PM mobile homeless wrote: Lordy...Quite a number of experiments there! Take a look. It's entertaining and surely worth another 20 minutes of wasted time looking at each exploded view. I know I enjoyed the extra procrastination! ---------------- The experiments he did would give me SOME confidence his products should be something else than a "let's put this preamp together to make some bucks". Still at the price he probably had to make some compromise. Unless the 10 year chinese boy is true. On his "budget" line, replacing the electrolytics in the PSU would probably be a start, replacing the coupling cap too. Like for Dean's Yip Yam Yung Shung Soo Quan preamp, I think a guy with tweaking ability should have fun with these. OTOH if a soldering iron is a dangerous weapon in your hand, you may stay clear of these and go for the established values (Cary AES, Wright and the usual list mentionned about three zillion times in this board). Jean-François, Jeff, J-F, Jeffus, Jeffrey, Froot, Loon, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Great thread with superb banter. Glad I bought a cheap seat in the peanut gallery. The Pantheon is very quiet these days and really mates well with the Horus. The musical/emotional output is very high. All I want to do these days is listen to MUSIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 It was an interesting thread. I wonder if anyone here actually bought that AE-1, though. I know that Wolfram was interested but concerned how much of an improvement there was over the stock AE-3. I think it would be an improvement but just how much, I dont know. Most seem to prefer it if just between the two. On the other hand, I really am thinking the tube rectification in the pre removes some of the last vestiges of that mechanical nature that sometimes rides along, not really apparent until it's gone. When I really compared yours preamp with my modified Cary, I thought the Cary was quieter with slightly more solid bass, yet your pre just sounded less like a mechanical device and ultimately more musical. Audrey preferred it as well saying so without even asking. It was a finicky beast that needed to warm up with care in the turn on sequence. But your NOS 5U4G was VERY nice. In a way, I subjectively might have preferred the Cary with rock but Jeff's pre was excellent with jazz and classical. Actually, I preferred it musically all the way around but my Cary is damn fine, and I ultimately decided not to upgrade. You only notice some of this in direct comparo. Still..., perhaps down the line. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I emailed YS-Audio after seeing their ads on Audiogon a few months ago. I also read some reviews on audio Asylum but they were comparing their pre to a Dynaco PAS3. I then found a US reseller who does some modifications and ended up talking to Tom Port of Betterrecords.com. He felt the line stage with his mods was great...w/o so-so. Original phono stage "horrible". current version not known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 Did anyone take a look at the YS-Audio history link I referenced above? It is amazing the number of amps he built over the years with many circuits and topoligy choices. I enjoyed the run through them all. At the very least, he seem like he has some experience. As Jeff noted, you dont know how much of a compromise went into the commercial product, however. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 ---------------- On 8/21/2003 7:24:20 AM mobile homeless wrote: Audrey preferred it as well saying so without even asking. It was a finicky beast that needed to warm up with care in the turn on sequence. But your NOS 5U4G was VERY nice. ---------------- Kelly, sorry to be late emailing back re. your desire to verify the rectifier tube. It is, in fact, a JAN CRC 5R4GY. Very sweet sounding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 Yep. For some odd reason, I thought it was the 5U4 and even got into a lengthy email exchange with ole Allan Songer concerning this tube. I really liked the JAN CRC 5R4GY a lot and thought it the best tube in the rectifier slot for your pre. You got a great match with that one. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 There was a comment a few months ago when I mentioned the YS Audio stuff that Asian brands tend to focus on engineering elegance such as point-to-point wiring and hot parts but don't always provide sonically strong circuits. Perhaps we can get some data points to challenge that statement...or maybe I got it wrong. I did read the history and he certainly seems to have experience. I also like the looks. I was excited to have KOSTA from Korato in Yugoslavia join us a couple months ago but the thread got derailed on another subject not worth repeating. I thought it might be interesting to dialog directly with the designer of affordable tube product that has gotten a great review in TNT-Audio and seems to have no presence in the US other than direct sales from Europe. The MapleTree Audio dialog seemed to be more fruitful. Here is the conclusion to the TNT review at http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/korato_e.html The Korato web site is linked in the review above. Of all the amps I've had in my system of late, these are my personal favourites, they just make me want to play music more than anything else I've heard, and for the first time that includes CD's. Other listeners or systems may prefer something less literal, but for me the Korato pair are to amplifiers what the Loth-x Polaris were to other speakers I've heard lately - real 'high-end'. The difference being that the Polaris were three times as expensive as anything else I had to hand, the Koratos are cheaper than all the other amps That they are also capable of driving anything they are likely to meet is the icing on the cake. Costing £1000 less than my own amps and comfortably outperforming them with my IPL's makes me jealous of the lucky future owner of this pair. At the moment I can't think of anything to touch them at the price. The Koratos are a class act - period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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