milton10 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Hello everyone! I am considering replacing the iron core inductor (2.5mH) that is with my circa '78 Heresy's and wonder if doing so is really worth the $$ to do so. A recent conversation with Al Klappenberger revealed that I should replace them with at least 14 gauge wire. Since 12 gauge wire is about double the price, is there any sonic benefit to the change? Will the lower DCR of the 12 gauge change the sonic qualities of the woofer (like increase output)? For what it is worth, when I called Parts Express to order an inductor, the tech refused to sell me one - according to him, the inductor either works or is dead (due to age) - no need to replace it (according to him, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"). Please help me with my confusion. Thanks! Milton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Next time tell him yours are open. Al did some tests and said the iron-core inductor used in his Belle crossovers (and apparently the same one in yours) saturated and changed inductance at surprisingly low power. That is unacceptable. As to 14 or 12 ga., there is a point where diminishing returns intersects the weight of unloaded wallet. That's your call. In a simple crossover like the Type E, you cannot have little DCR. Lowering DCR increases the woofer's output, but the difference is surely less than 1 dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 ---------------- On 8/24/2003 12:21:33 PM milton10 wrote: I am considering replacing the iron core inductor (2.5mH) that is with my circa '78 Heresy's and wonder if doing so is really worth the $$ to do so ---------------- My recommendation is not to bother. Save your money and buy a couple of CDs. Also note that changing woofer inductors to *supposed* higher quality (lower resistance) can be a BAD thing. The woofer choke has resistance that is factored into the alignment of the systems as a whole. As I have said before, the right choke is the *right* choke, not the lowest resistance choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar dave Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 milton, i too upgraded to an air core inductor from parts express for my home brew cornwall's and the improvement was well worth it. the bass tightend up and had more of a quality sound. i am using a B network design simular to an E network, just using different caps. dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Milton, Getting rid of the iron core inductor is definilty a step in the right direction. Even the small level changes of the signal generator level control on my impedance bridge makes a big difference in the measured value of an iron core inductor. An air-wound coil is completely stable. The inductance of an iron core coil is actually changing dynamically with the instanious level of the current waveform through it! That has to cause distortion! As to the wire gauge, the bigger the better but #14 is plenty large enough. Remember that the DCR of the woofer driver voice coil is in the circuit too and it's MUCH bigger then that of the inductor. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 ---------------- On 8/25/2003 10:45:21 AM Al Klappenberger wrote: That has to cause distortion! ---------------- So don't alot of things but are the worth chasing?? This is a sealed system and can be modelled using T/S parameters. The original was not. I do not know how one can go about making changes to a sealed system without knowing where you are coming from and where you want to take it. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milton10 Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 I just replaced my coils with Solen 14 ga. wire and am happy with the results. I know that there are some that say that no sound difference can be heard, but I am noticing more "punch" in the lower end, and a tighter overall sound with these inductors in place. The real benefit is when I turn on my Sunfire Junior sub - for some reason, the Heresy's blend perfectly with the sub now - before you could hear the bass coming from the sub and not the Heresy's - the result is a much fuller soundstage and better/clearer blending of bass notes. All in all this is a different result than I was expecting. I am very happy with the results! Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions! Milton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 ---------------- On 8/29/2003 3:47:58 PM milton10 wrote: I just replaced my coils with Solen 14 ga. wire and am happy with the results. I know that there are some that say that no sound difference can be heard, but I am noticing more "punch" in the lower end, and a tighter overall sound with these inductors in place. >>The Hersey begins to rool-off at 100Hz and is -3dB down at 65Hz The woofer Vas is too low for the enclosure. Sure, air chokes are better but my contention is that changing the woofer choke on the Heresy is like putting a band-aid on the elbow when your knee is scrapped. Also, your claims of more punch and tighter overall sound are attributes I associate with changes to Qtc which, in this case are effectively zero. If you are happy with the sound, that is all that matters. I was just trying to save you a few bucks. --------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milton10 Posted August 30, 2003 Author Share Posted August 30, 2003 John, I understand and appreciate that! If I had not already ordered the coils, I probably would not have purchased them. Once I got them, I did not expect anything different sonically, but noticed the slightly tighter low end and better blending with the sub. Was this a perceived change rather than actual? I doubt it. But the change is small and I understand where you are coming from (from a cost perspective). Some things are better chased than others. Thanks for all the input! Milton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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