Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi & DV-47Ai are home!

[jdm56]

...Picked up at Kief's A/V in Lawrence, KS on 8/27.

First impressions:

Gorgeous receiver and uni-player. Glossy black finish smudges real easily, though. Everything seems to work OK, but I can't get 5.1 from SACD and DVD-Audio! Very frustrating. Are all A/V receivers this darned complicated, or am I just slower than the average village idiot? I have been playing with Audio gear for 30 years or more, yet this thing has got me stumped. Owners manual is half an inch thick, for cryin' out loud!

Geez, can you say "bells & whistles"? - This things got more of 'em than you can count.

Hook-up is easy. Set-up is not! I had to go drag the kid's 19" TV into the music room just to set up the DVD player! Argh! Guess I'll have to spring for a little 13"er to keep in here just for the OSD! Progress? ...The guys over in the Two-Channel forum are looking smarter all the time!

Finally coaxed multi-channel sound out of it! Put on DSOTM on SACD, turned the lights down and turned on the lava lamp. Now, that's more like it! ...Oh yes, this is good; very, very good. So...smooth sounding. Like analog without the bugs. I believe I could really get into this.

Next up: Norah Jones on CD, played back with Dolby Pro Logic II- Music mode. WWOWWWWW!!! It may be "just" red book CD, but through this receiver, with DPL-II, it is so organic and lush! How much better could this sound on SACD? It is out, so I may have to see.

Time for my lone DVD-A disc, "Say You Will", from Fleetwood Mac. Uh, my "Tusk" CD sounds better than this - no kidding. Garbage In / Garbage Out I guess. No, wait - just the first track or two is really lame. The rest sounds better, but still the sound is only OK. Very disappointing. I wonder who screwed it up?

Build quality: mixed bag, here. For instance, the DVD player has a thick, detachable power cord, which is great, but then this big, honkin' 40+ pound receiver has this skrawny 18ga. captive cord that looks like it belongs on something made by Hasbro. What's up with that??? Otherwise, build quality on both pieces seems good. Fit'n'finish are excellent. Sheet metal on receiver is solid, not flimsy. I mean, we're not talkin Krell here, but it's definitely decent.

Can't make any sweeping pronouncenents on relative sound quality yet. Relative to what I've had before, that is. But I can say it is definitely quiet and clean. No nasties have gotten my attention yet.

Stay tuned...

[chinoloco]

Are you using the SACD and DVD-A 5.1 channel outs?

They are separate outputs that won't work with the Digital Coaxial or Optical.

Also on the SACDs and DVD-A, some discs are mixed in Stereo only while others are multi channel. most should be capable of both Stereo and multichannel.

hope that might help a little.

[Bruinsrme]

Congrats Jim.

The Fleetwood mac sacd is not the best one for the sacd experience. As a matter of fact I use mine as a coaster.

The Pioneer and Klipsch set up is not very forgiving. BUT when you have a good quality recording you will be sitting front row center stage.

I have several sacd and dvd-a. Even with these newer formats some are better than others. If you have a Best Buy near you they have a good (better than most) selection of SACD and DVD-a.

I recently startingn purchasing the DVD music videos in DTS and they sound awesome. If you like Santana the Sacred fire (the one with cameos of other pop singers) is unbelievable. The percussions are great and the guitar, well its Santana.

Another good one is Roger Waters In the flesh, it is a live recording and the pioneer klipsch will bring out all those tamborines and cymbals other speakers neglect.

You will quickly discover the bad remasterings.

Congrats and enjoy,

Scott

[gfelk]

I was wondering if your new vsx-55txi does the air studios calibration help solve some of the timbre matching beween you heritage speakers and your rs-7 center channel? I have forte II's for fronts and kg 2.5s for rears and the kv-3 for a center. Now I know the ideal is the academy which is almost impossible to get, not to mention the high prices on ebay. I have just about given up on trying to get one. Did this amp help balance this difference in timbre?

[Fish]

Just wondering can your set up use digital link for hi-rez audio?

[jdm56]

I am using the i-link between player and receiver. I don't have any other audio connections hooked up. According to the manual, The i-link can pass all the audio, regardless of format, jitter free. So, that's what I'm doing.

I did finally get the set-up correct to where all DVD-A and SACD's default to the 5.1 mix.

I am using a belle klipsch for the center, which timbre matches the cornerhorns pretty well anyway. I did run the MCACC set-up, and I have compared that sound with the sound straight. MCACC is MUCH better.

[Bruinsrme]

Hi Jim,

Take a look at your 47ai set up.

Remove any DVDs from the unit and then hit menu

Under the INITIAL SETTING menu review the settings

DVD Playback (2CH, Multi CH and CD)

SACD (2CH, Multi CH and CD)

Also under SPEAKERS

I have selected 5.1, not stereo

The under I-Link select

Auto Select Play 49TXi (does your give you 55txi?

I hope this works/helps

Scott

[jdm56]

Scott,

Thanks for the help. I think I'm OK on everything except maybe that initial set-up. I am getting multi-channel now, but I will check it all again as soon as I get a little TV in there for the on-screen display.

So far, I am really liking this receiver. That skinny power cord still bugs me, though.

[picky]

Howdy Jim:

Congrats on the awesome receiver! I just love my VSX49TXi, which is very similar to yours! I run it with the same DVD player as you. I use the i-Link connection in order to gain full bass management and have discovered that not all SACDs are equal! I have a 'Journey' SACD and it is recorded in only two-channel stereo! It still sounds awesome over my Klipsch's, but what a disappointement compared to my 'Night at the Opera' DVD-Audio by Queen, which is in true 5.1! It's as if Freddie Mercury is in the room next to me! Be very choosy when selecting your discs and you probably will not be disappointed by them. As for the finger smudges on the Elite's ebony surface....yes, I agree they are a pain. After you are done fiddling around with your new toys, you will porbably just use your remotes most of the time and the rigs will remain "smudgless". As for reciever set-up...you could not be more correct! Setting up the Pioneer Elites is a very involved process and I highly reccomend oanyone who buys one of these amazing rigs to PA-LEESE read the instruction book cover-to-cover before you even plug it in. It will save you a lot of grief. But, believe me...the sound you will get out is worth all of the effort! Have fun and live it up!

-Picky

[jdm56]

Thanks, Picky!

You're sure right about SACD /DVD-A discs - caveat emptor for sure...dude! My Fleetwood Mac DVD-A sounds poor. (Sound&Vision lauded the sound quality! - go figure)

Hey that '49 is a Cadillac! My 55 is maybe a mid-level Pontiac. But thanks for mentioning them both in the same sentence, anyway!

[chinoloco]

BUMP!

James,

I wanted to bump up your thread to the top to see how are the results so far with the system? I am seriously thinking about going your route for updates in the near future. SACD Bass management is very frustrating without either the outlaw ICBM or iLink it seems.

I just found out from Pioneer that I need to set all my speakers to "small" to get the bass to pass through to the subwoofer. I have been messing around and listening to "large" for speaker type and subwoofer "plus" due to comments here. Sometimes this has worked better, but I think since the 45TX needs to have small settings to pass bass to LFE, I am going to mess with my settings again.

I would appreciate some updates as I am pondering how to convince my wife to go along for the 55TXi/47Ai purchase...

[Diss]

And I am BUMPING to help out chinoloco, and tell him to check his pm's.

Thanks

[jdm56]

Chinoloco,

Hey, so far so good! This set-up is making the cleanest sound I've ever had. Toobies might think it a bit dry, but to me it's just super clean and uncolored.

Pioneer claims that all data passed through the i-link (CD, DVD-A, SACD, etc.) is JITTER FREE! Now I can't verify that, but it might help explain the super pristine sound I am hearing.

And the on-board digital 5-band EQ is great. I could wish for more bands in the bass, or a parametric, but still it's a big, big bonus. I have run the MCACC and then A/B'd the results to the non-equalized sound: no contest. the EQ'd sound wins every time. I know the purists would cringe, but I can't argue with results.

As far as how to win your wife over, you might tell her these Pioneer Elite rigs are some of the best values out their. (Which they are!) Also, let her see how gorgeous the glossy black finish is. That might sell her for sure.

Oh yeah, the i-link...fantastic. Definitely the wave of the future. I would guess that soon all things digital will be connected by i-link. And as far as I know, Pioneer is the only one to offer it on a less-than-flagship model.

In case you haven't picked up on it by now, I can definitely recommend the 55TXi and 47Ai! You won't be sorry.

...I still don't like that skinny power cord on the receiver, though.

[chinoloco]

Sigh.....sorry guys.. I am about to write a book here.

I think I moved too fast when building my 2 systems. Had I known that the 55TXi was going to come out with "ilink", I might have waited for a bit.

Oh well.. what is the solution? Build a third system!!!!

I am excited because you seem to get great results over ilink.

In my setup, my DV-45a is connected with 3 pairs of RCS for multi channel, 1 pair for 2 channel and then coaxial for digital.

One thing I am super frustrated by is that I just like the digital output more then analog output. (2 channel guys.. eat your heart out!!!)

DVD-A and SACD over analog is sure frustrating me for sure.

Examples:

1. Any regular audio CDs.

With the music travelling over the Digital coaxial via PCM output, the sound is much more deeper. The Bass is much more intense and the sound to me is more full. Setting on the AVR is "Source Direct". I have almost listened to every CD I have in my collection, switching from 2 channel analog audio cable connection and Digital. Digital wins everytime. 2 channel analog utput just sounds hollow to me.

2. SACDs.

I cannot tell you if this is the mixing or its the lack of bass management on my equipment. It just seems like with the 5.1 multi channel, the mixing seems to ignore the .1 channel alot of the times. Its like to me.. you have 6 connections. 1 is dedicated for the sub... why is there so little sound out of the subwoofer? I know there is a little output on the sub, but shouldn't the bass be more intensified? its like when they mixed it, they cut down on the bass. I have called Pioneer, set my crossover at 100hz. I have set my speakers to Small, and sub to on with both ends. Sub sounds much weaker when compared to regular CDs over PCM. I love the 5 channels on the highs and the mids. Its nice to have more fulfilling sound and have more direction from soem of the music. now please direct all the damn Bass to the .1 channel so I don't need to get external bass management equipment.

3. DVD-A and DVD music.

What can I say? I have 2 DVD-As. One is the DTS surround Hell Freezes over by the Eagles, the other is Night at the opera by Queen.

I pop in the eagles disc and listen in digital surround. ahh.. nice.. deep sounds, full sounds clean crisp concise music, bass is satisfactory when using DTS output over digital coaxial. Switch the AVR to analog 5.1 output. Bass output seemed to be cut in half. sound is more hollow and empty. AM I LISTENING TO BOSE ALL OF THE SUDDEN??? very dissappointing for me to be sure.

Pop in the the Queen DVD-A. bohemian rhapsody in 5 channel.. very cool. low bass output AGAIN... not so cool.

Bottom line, I have concluded either I need to change equipment to get more bass from the Subwoofer and go digital throughout. One thing I am still unclear about is does DVD-As go through ilink as well? I thought it was only SACD but I want to be sure. I guess I may have to get the outlaw ICBM to control all sounds under a certain frequency to the sub.

To the gang here:

1. Will I get more bass "out of the box" by going DV47Ai?

2. Will the Outlaw ICBM save my DV45a from being weak?? is the DV45A the only player weak on bass?

3. How is the bass over ilink?

thanks for the help... frustrated as hell and not sure where to go next.

[jdm56]

I've got a review of the 45A around here someplace, but because I'm lazy, I'll just ask you: Does it (the 45A) have analog bass management? That is, does it have bass management on the 5.1 analog outputs? I can't remember. If not, it would not matter how you have your receiver's bass management set up; there would be nothing sent to the LFE channel when playing anything over the analog multi-channel output. From the description of your experiences, I would guess the 45A does not have any bass mngmt. on the 5.1 analog outs, so yes, the 47Ai would take care of your bass problems. The i-link will allow you to fully use an i-link equipped receivers bass management. But, the 47Ai also has analog bass management on the 5.1 analog outs. (fixed at 80hz) that would work with your 45TX. The ICBM would also take care of the problem.

As for bass over i-link, I have no complaints. It sounds fine to me. Cause as you know, with i-link, bass is handled consistently regardless of format. ...decisions, decisions!

[chinoloco]

Its very weak bass management.

supposedly, if you have small for the speakers, its supposed to route the bass to the sub.. but it doesn't work very well. bass is very weak.