pennektj Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Hey all, I am looking to get a new sub for my home theater, to replace my Cerwin Vega LW-15... I know I know... should have never bought it in the first place. I am currently considering the KSW 12... or the RW 10... My main issue, is I am on a budget... looking to spend around 600... What are your feelings on the two? Any other suggestions for different subs I should look at. I have a full Synergy set-up... (can't afford Reference yet)... Just need something that is smooth and clean, will be using for both movies and music. Thanks for any help you guys can provide. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 The best bang for you buck is SVS(Hsu's another good one). In your budget they have a few options to consider and all of them are much better subs than the two you have mentioned. Do you have an old receiver or spare amp channel? If so, you can get one of the passive models and save some money. I've tried powering three different SVS with only 100W and all of them go surprising loud with a relatively small amount of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 On your budget you can get the RW-12. Don't even consider the KSW line. I picked up the RW-12 for 599 when they first came out so you should get one even cheaper now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennektj Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 I have contacted SVS to see what sub they think (of thiers) would best suit my needs. It should be interesting to see what they come up with. Any other suggestions besides Klipsch and SVS that would have a great sub for under ~600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 svs pb1isd or the 20-39pci - those are on my "want" list for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 ---------------- On 11/18/2003 1:23:29 PM pennektj wrote: I have contacted SVS to see what sub they think (of thiers) would best suit my needs. It should be interesting to see what they come up with. Any other suggestions besides Klipsch and SVS that would have a great sub for under ~600. ---------------- Have you considered building one yourself? If you have only basic woodworking knowledge, you can follow the advise of someone here or follow online plans using Adire Audio drivers. You'll get a far better price/performance ratio this way. With ~$300-350 in parts to build a vented Tempest you can similar performance capabilities of an SVS CS Ultra with will cost well over $1k when you add an amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIUHuskies Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 ---------------- Have you considered building one yourself? If you have only basic woodworking knowledge, you can follow the advise of someone here or follow online plans using Adire Audio drivers. You'll get a far better price/performance ratio this way. With ~$300-350 in parts to build a vented Tempest you can similar performance capabilities of an SVS CS Ultra with will cost well over $1k when you add an amp ---------------- Where can I find the the onlime plans for the Tempast that you mentioned? I haven't heard anything about this before, but I would be interested in building my own sub. TKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/tempest_apps.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennektj Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Frankie, With this vented Adire... I just follow what the PDF is telling me... that is it... right...? AFter that I should have a sub that performs amazingly? I am pretty good with wood working... just not picking out components... I will do further research into this... any more information you can provide would be great!!! Have you built one of these? Would like to get first hand feedback... as to the sound this would create. Is it fast and clean bass... or really boomy, like the 15 I have now? Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 ---------------- On 11/18/2003 3:22:59 PM pennektj wrote: Frankie, With this vented Adire... I just follow what the PDF is telling me... that is it... right...? AFter that I should have a sub that performs amazingly? I am pretty good with wood working... just not picking out components... I will do further research into this... any more information you can provide would be great!!! Have you built one of these? Would like to get first hand feedback... as to the sound this would create. Is it fast and clean bass... or really boomy, like the 15 I have now? Thanks for the info. ---------------- That's pretty much it. There are other drivers besides Adire to choose from but only Adire(to my knowledge) has detailed plans. There are a few users have built their own subs using Adire products. Just do a search in this section for Tempest and you'll find a pretty recent(and very long) post by a member named fire pinch, he compared his Tempest to Hsu VTF-3 and he heavily favored the Tempest subwoofer. With a vented Tempest and a 300-400 watts you can have around double the clean output of the best commercial sub you can buy for ~600. I haven't built any subs using Adire drivers, but I've tried my hand at 6 DIY subs myself using different drivers. I was just about buy a used Tempest and 250W plate amp for only $220 shipped built a vented enclosure for my parent's HT, but it didn't work out because my parents wanted to pay with Paypal using a credit card and the guy can only accept non CC payments through Paypal or money orders. If you're interested, just PM or email me and I can give you his email, I've bought other stuff from this guy over the net and he's a good guy. I can also help you along the way if you need it. Some other driver's to look into are the from Dayton's from www.partsexpress.com, the SAE1204 and the AV12/AV15(what I use), and if you're comfortable buying a driver without a warranty www.audioliquidators.com has very good pricing on closeout Blueprint Drivers. A good forum for DIY info is the the DIY section of www.hometheaterforum.com. LMK if I can answer any more of your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Where is the voice of Knowledge and reason? HEY EAR................................what's your take on all this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennektj Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Frankie, Thanks a bunch for the information... you talked me into trying this. Here is the plan. Tempest Sub 15" 250 Watt plate amp, from Parts Express. (Is this a good choice, don't want to skimp out on the amp) Build the Adire enclosure that is good for both music and HT. If you have any other recommendations before I get started please let me know. Thanks again! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Sonotube can be used with great success. Definately easy and very cheap to build. Sonotube is a trade name for concrete building forms. Do a search on the internet on sonosub, and sonotube subwoofers. You will be very suprised at the number of sites out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2xmark Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 if you shop you can find a sell on paradigm, i picked up one of my 4 subs for only 599.95 in Houston new in the box, its a paradigm pw2200, it is a good sub but look at other brands also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 ---------------- On 11/18/2003 8:55:33 PM michael hurd wrote: Sonotube can be used with great success. Definately easy and very cheap to build. Sonotube is a trade name for concrete building forms. Do a search on the internet on sonosub, and sonotube subwoofers. You will be very suprised at the number of sites out there. ---------------- Micheal's right, it is cheap and easy but some prefer the look of standard box sub over a cylinder. You can check out my tubes in the attachment(small aren't they?). You can buy sonotube by looking up concrete contractors in the yellow pages. All you need is a router and a circle jig(can easily be made out of scrap wood if you don't want to buy one). Just cut circles and glue them into the tube, put the driver on the bottom and the port on top and that's it. Here's one site to calculate sonotube dimensions if you're interested in going that way. Here's another with lots of DIY projects. The 250W PE amp is probably the most popular choice and will give you gobs of bass. There is only one other choice within it's price range and that is the Rythmik 350W plate amp. The difference between in output between 250W and 350W will be minimal(a tad over 1dB), but it gives you more flexbility for future subs if it's reused with it's variable subsonic filter(the PE has one ~18 or 19hz I think) and varialbe boost(not needed with any of Adire's plans), it's about $25 more. Whether you think the other features are worth the extra money is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Forgot to add the pic of my tubes...and yes that's a picture of the oh so fabulous one for size reference. They're visually(and audibly) intimidating but I already had my KLF20's pulled forward in front of my racks and only had to move them about 1" forward to fit the tubes so it didn't make too big a difference in space for room...why waste space when a subwoofer can go there? As far as your concern about it being boomy because it's 15" subwoofer, rest assured that if it sounds boomy it will not be because of the subwoofer. If it does sound boomy, it will be because of your room acoustics. Subwoofer placement and your listening position will determine this, experimentation is always best. One method I've found to work well is to place the subwoofer in your listening position and go around your room listening to where the bass sounds best(not just the loudest), what ever spot it sounds best put it there. Paradigm PW2200's are excellent subwoofers but pretty much nothing can match the value of DIY. Tom V of SVS has compared the PW2200's output capabilities with the 20-39PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennektj Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 Frankie... When is comes to the plate amp... could I just use the one from my CW LW-15? Specs are below... Or would I be better off getting the amp from Parts Express? Again I don't want to be cheap on the amp... but I also don't want to buy one that isn't going to be any better than this one. Thanks, Tim 27 Hz - 150 Hz 200 watts Continuously variable from 40 - 120 Hz @ 18 dB/ octave 0 or 180 degrees user selectable 18 dB/ octave below 27 Hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 ---------------- On 11/19/2003 8:54:09 AM pennektj wrote: Frankie... When is comes to the plate amp... could I just use the one from my CW LW-15? Specs are below... Or would I be better off getting the amp from Parts Express? Again I don't want to be cheap on the amp... but I also don't want to buy one that isn't going to be any better than this one. Thanks, Tim 27 Hz - 150 Hz 200 watts Continuously variable from 40 - 120 Hz @ 18 dB/ octave 0 or 180 degrees user selectable 18 dB/ octave below 27 Hz ---------------- The problem with using amps from commercial subs is you don't know whether the amp has some sort of eq built in to make the response of the Cerwin sub flat. If you're following one of Adire's plans then the response of the sub will be flat without any eq, when the eq is added(if there is any) it will cause an unpredictable response. The other concern I have is the "18dB/octave below 27hz" part. It sounds like a subsonic filter at 27hz, this is unacceptable for the Adire sub. You're tuning low and making this big enclosure to surpass commercial subs where it counts, down low. Building this awesome sub and limiting the signal below 27hz is like buying a BMW M3 and never getting out of first gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennektj Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 Frankie, THANKS... That is what I wanted to hear... and what a perfect analogy see as how I am a major car nut... I am thinking about getting the Adire amp.... just so I know that it is perfectly mated for the sub... and it is only 25 more dollars. I am getting soo excited, think I might start building the box this weekend. woo hoo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 ---------------- On 11/19/2003 10:50:06 AM pennektj wrote: Frankie, THANKS... That is what I wanted to hear... and what a perfect analogy see as how I am a major car nut... I am thinking about getting the Adire amp.... just so I know that it is perfectly mated for the sub... and it is only 25 more dollars. I am getting soo excited, think I might start building the box this weekend. woo hoo... ---------------- I'm just big BMW fan that's why I choose the M3 as an example. If you want an upgrade from the PE 250W amp I'd much rather go with the Rythmik amp instead of the Adire amp. More power and more flexibility if you want to use it on another project down the road. Matching Adire amps to Adire driver does nothing extra for your sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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