RobHT Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Yet another "Help me select a receiver" thread! I want the best possible receiver for my 7.1 setup primarily for movies. My (nearly completed) theater room is 14'(W) X 26' (D) X 9' (H). My side surrounds are on the side walls about 6' from the floor slightly in front of the prime seating, and the rear surrounds on the back wall almost at the ceiling because I have a bar behind my primary seating. The rears are much closer to the ceiling than Klipsch recommends. I am still finishing construction and have no idea how this is going to sound. I am trying to pick out a receiver to mate with my Klipsch speakers. (Sorry to be so longwinded) OK, to the questions. 1) Anyone using a new receiver with DPLIIx for 7.1(like the RXV 1400/2400)? How does the Yamaha/Klipsch match sound? 2) For my speakers and room size will I be significantly better off with a higher end receiver like the 49TXi or B&K 507? 3) With my less than perfect speaker placements, is some sort of automatic room calibration (YPAO or MCACC) go to be a big benefit? --(I have some experience using an SPL meter for setting speaker levels but am a novice at calibration beyond that.) Any advice/recommendations/feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 RobHT: First of all, welcome aboard! I think you'll find there are some outstanding people here in this forum that we all learn from. And though I am not trying to imply that I am one of those people, I do have some information for you that I hope you might benefit from: Your planned room sounds very nice and it is quite a bit larger than mine: 14'(W) X 26' (D) X 9' (H) versus mine: 10.5'(W) X 19' (D) X 7' (H). Mine is in an older basement, hence the low ceiling. However, our speaker choices are quite similar: 2 X RF-7, 4 X RS-7, 1 X RC-7, 1 X RSW-12 versus mine: 2 X RF-7, 2 X RS-7, 1 X RC-7, 1 X RSW-15 & 2 X RCW-5s. I am the proud owner of a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi which is one of the three prospects you mentioned in your post. Although I cannot tell you how the others will perform in your selected space, I can tell you that I love everything about my Pioneer and I have not been disappointed with it, even once, in the year I have owned it. In my small room, it runs my reference series speakers to realistic levels with no hint of distortion or laboring. Taking all the above information into account, and assuming you are also going to want to hear realistic dynamic representation of music and effects while watching movies, I must tell you that it is my opinion that if you decide to go with a VSX-49TXi, I fear it may disappoint you in that sizible room environment due to a lack of sufficient power. (130 watts into 8 ohms X 7) If it were up to me, I'd recommend going with separate front-end and power amps of a more sizible confiuration or a much larger receiver. Also, not knowing your personal tastes, it is my belief that your single, 12" sub may disappoint you as well in your selected room. I know this is not good news for you, but I hope it helps make your decision easier. -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Hi Rob. Let me say first I don't see a lack of power being a problem with any of the receivers you have on your list. My old Yamaha is only 80 watts for the mains and center and 25 watts for the effects and combined with the high sensitivity of the Klipsch Ref7's is more than enough in my opinion and my room is 12x27x8. The problem I have is I just don't like the sound of Yamaha with my 7's. It's even worse than it was with my Forte2's, so I advise you to listen carefully to that combination first before buying. But the Yamaha is much cheaper than the other two. There is a guy who posts on this board named Scott who owns the 49TXi and he loves everything about it except for the bright sound with his Ref7's. Same problem I have with Yamaha. He finally bought Parasound amps and says he thinks that has cured the it. My vote would go for the B&K. That's what the salesman demoed the RF7's to me with and they sounded spectacular. It's a non-current limiting design and has plenty of power. Best of all B&K is bringing down the price $1000! Just my $.02 I'm sure others will have offer some other ideas. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHT Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 picky-picky Thanks for your input. Great website on your theater too. Where are the pics of your finished theater? Sounds like you are suggesting that I am going to need a beefy amp for my room. I should add that my room is actually 'L' shaped with a separate wet bar off to the side in the back of the room. That will add a few more sq. ft. to be filled with sound. I guess I thought that with the reported effeciency of Klipsch speakers that power would not be a big issue. This leads me more toward the B&K 507 with 150 WPC and a supposedly slightly beefier amp than the 49TXi. I love the remote it comes with too (in fact I would likely by an MX-700 remote separately if I go with a different receiver). The only drawback is that it doesn't have an automatic calibration feature (remember I am a neophite!) I really don't want to go the separates route, if possible. Any other thoughts? All input/suggestions/criticisms/etc. are welcome! -Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHT Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 Steelers Fan, Another vote for the B&K! I have heard that the Klipsch speakers can have a "bright" or "harsh" sound when mated with certain receivers. Does the MCACC/YPAO not compensate for this in some way??? I know I am asking some very subjective questions here. I have only heard these speakers in a showroom under less than ideal circumstances. Anyone out there with the B&K/Klipsch combo care to comment on the "bright" vs "warm" sound they get? This forum is great! Thanks to everyone taking the time to help a 'newbie' out! -Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 RobHT & SteelersFan: The reason I claim that a lack-of-power might be perceived is because I run my VSX-49TXi volume control at the -10db setting to get realistic sound while playing DVDs and I would feel a bit un-nerved to run it much beyond that level when considering reference level is 0 db and max-dial is +12db. I'm simply being cautious here folks and leaving some headroom. As for the 49TXi sounding a bit bright with the Ref 7's, I usually agree with Scott (Orange Peel) but, I must disagree here. Even though my 7's haven't been what I would call, completely broken-in yet, they sound great to me and not really what I would term as "bright". However, I was told by my dealer that if I really wanted the 7's to sound warmer, I should consider a tube amp. Now, that could simply be his (the dealer's) personal preference...or, my own hearing...just I have had my hearing tested and despite being 52, the ears still work great! ...huh? What's that?..... Thanks for the good words on my HT site. But, "Where are the pics of my finished theater?" Sorry, dude: That's why it's a "construction site!" It won't be finished until the end of this year! Sorry! I will update it with new pictures "when the hammer stops a-swingin'!" Please do not misunderstand my caution here regarding power. The Pioneer may have what it takes, I just don't want to see you be suprised if it doesn't. The great effeciency of our speakers is a great help, but I don't want to make the asumption of telling you "Yeah! It's great! Pioneer Rules!! Go ahead and spend all that money!" and then find out I gave you bad info! I will say that I know there are a lot of people out there that detest equalization stuff (and that's okay), but I absolutely LOVE the MCACC setup system in my Pioneer! If you don't wanna go the separates route, perhaps your local Pioneer Elite dealer will let you set up a demo 49TXi in your place for a trial run and see what you think? It's an outstanding rig! It's worth a try! Best of luck! -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 B&K hands down, the other A/V receivers you mentioned while nice are not in the same league as the B&K 507 it is simply a much better unit period! I would not even attempt to compare my Denon AVR-4800 to the B&K 507 it is just that much better a unit. Go to audioreview.com and read the customer comments for the receivers you mentioned, better yet go out an listen to them with music and movies that you are familiar with then make your choice. As stated B&K has dropped the price and now is the time to act! I am parting with my Denon AVR-4800 in favor of the B&K Reference 50 pre/processor as I am getting for half of its suggested retail price I would be nuts not to jump at the chance to get a $3K unit to head up my all Heritage HT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHT Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 Frzninvt (wow, that's a tongue twister!) Thanks for the input. Can I ask where you are getting such a good deal on the Ref 50? I have not found anywhere that has the 507 listed for much less than the new MSRP. -Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 ---------------- On 11/26/2003 12:50:06 PM RobHT wrote: Anyone out there with the B&K/Klipsch combo care to comment on the "bright" vs "warm" sound they get? ---------------- I don't have the reciever, but I am running my Klipsch RF-7s, et al, through a B&K Reference 200.7 amp, which from what I understand, is similar, but much beefier, than what is in the B&K 507 reciever. I found the sound to be extremely clear and very dynamic, with incredible detail. I don't think it is bright at all, but that could very well be as much me as it is the gear I am using. I am using a Denon AVR3802 reciever as a pre/pro, though, so I don't know how much that would effect the sound. Personally, of the three options, I would also go with the B&K, with the Pioneer being a close second. Instead of Yamaha, I would personally opt for one of the Denon models instead for a third. So B&K lowered thier prices, eh? I am going to have to talk to my dealer and see if they will invoke the "price protection" they seem to like tout around on thier advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Rob, http://www.downtownaudio.com/ has the 507 on their website for $2688. 6th ave has it for $2998. One of the two at least is an authorized dealer I think, maybe 6th ave but don't quote me. Looks like they haven't caught up with the price reduction on the REF 50 yet but I heard the $1000 reduction is supposed to be on that also. I did see somewhere it isn't supposed to be official until 12/1. Scott, Don't sweat it on the amp you bought. I've heard nothing on any price reductions for them. If I thought I could go down to Sound Advice and get $500 off the REF 200.5 including cables I'd buy it right now and hook it up to my Yamaha. But they make me mad 2 out of 3 times I go in there. I've read about all kinds of reason's for the reductions; new and larger plant so they can increase production, their new products are going to be delayed and they want to maintain market share, they are trying to increase market share. Take your pick. Search some of the other HT forums and you are bound to find threads on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 If you have the B&K 200.7 why dont you use the B&K Ref 50 that mates with that amp, you don't need a receiver with that amp it would be a waste. In addition you could take advantage of the balanced inputs and outputs for the cleanest possible signal. Why in the world would you want a receiver when you have that awesome amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Buy the way my B&K authorized area dealer (Alpha Stereo, Plattsburgh, NY) has offered me a brand new B&K Ref 50 for $1499, I wish that I had the money for the matching B&K 200.7 amplifier but it would run me $3K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Ooops I just noticed that I was reading Skonopa's response on the B&K 200.7. What did that thing cost you? $3K? Just curious as to what kind of deal you got. I did get offered the older B&K 7270 which is about the same minus the balanced inputs for $2.2K though. I think I will stick with my DBX amplification for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 hey rob, i thought i would add my 2$, anyway recently i was in your shoes, so i spent awhile auditioning, and reading every little thing i could about most of the receivers you mentioned, as you can see by my sig i ended up with the b&k gear, the non current limitting aspect of the unit is phenomenol in ht, i have never heard action in movies the way i do now, explosions are truly explosive, scary sometimes, and the most delicate passage in 2 channel is so breathtaking, bass rumbles towars you like ripples in water, i cant say enough good about the 507, when i did my final head to head audition i went against the rotel 1075 gear, the denon 5803, and the 507, and although the other were very very good, the b&k just had more of everything, in the way of presentation, i think the denon had a few more features, but the 507 had the power, i mean down low sub producing power, this is where the non limiting comes into play, plus future expandability is there for the asking, so the new formats, and tweaks will be made available to you, i dont mean to sound like a salesman, but the b&k is just in a different league from the feet it sits on to the tiniest little resister, go to thier site, they do a fair job of explaining this as well, good luck in your choices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Rob, Get the B&K receiver,better amp and matches Klipsch R series so well. The Yamaha and Pioneer are good receivers but with Klipsch the B&K is simplyu a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiNNi C P Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 i always believe that high end yamaha receivers are made for british speakers. From what i heard, yamaha amps are pretty laid back, and some british speakers i heard sound really sharp, so when paired up, it sounds even. Buuut, not all british speakers are sharp sound, such as Mission speakers. the best thing to do is trial and error i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHT Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 Found a great deal on the B&K 507. This made my decision easy! Should have a shiny new 507 next week! Thanks for everyone's help. I will let you know how I like it. A friend of mine has the B&K 307 with Martin Logans and, needless to say, it sounds great so I'm sure I won't be disappointed. -Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Congratulations Rob. We're anxious to read your review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 ---------------- On 11/26/2003 2:48:02 PM Frzninvt wrote: Ooops I just noticed that I was reading Skonopa's response on the B&K 200.7. What did that thing cost you? $3K? Just curious as to what kind of deal you got. I did get offered the older B&K 7270 which is about the same minus the balanced inputs for $2.2K though. I think I will stick with my DBX amplification for now. ---------------- I got it for slightly more than 3K, including 3 pairs of Monster M850i cables. Full MSRP is something like $3,600, plus another $300 for the cables, so I got a pretty decent deal. Maybe not as good as if I went online, but by the time I figured in shipping, it would've came our pretty even. In your case, I don't think it would've been worth it to move from your current DBX amps. I am currently using my Denon AVR3802 reciever as a pre/pro for the simple fact that I just don't have the money to buy the Ref 50 pre/pro right now, especially going into the holiday season. The Denon actually works quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Rob ---------------- On 11/26/2003 1:47:20 PM skonopa wrote: Robht, I own te b&k 507 avr and am thrilled with the performance, it does not sound shrilly at all, I run 2 cornwall 4 heresy and 2 chorus, alon with the svs b4-plus which is powerd by the crown k2 2500 watt amp. youwill be appy with the b7K. iT DOES HAVE room equalization. As I am not vert technically advanced yet, I would reccomend to you to reach out for marksdad on this forum for he is very technically savey and also owns and loves the 507. Smilin ---------------- On 11/26/2003 12:50:06 PM RobHT wrote: Anyone out there with the B&K/Klipsch combo care to comment on the "bright" vs "warm" sound they get? ---------------- I don't have the reciever, but I am running my Klipsch RF-7s, et al, through a B&K Reference 200.7 amp, which from what I understand, is similar, but much beefier, than what is in the B&K 507 reciever. I found the sound to be extremely clear and very dynamic, with incredible detail. I don't think it is bright at all, but that could very well be as much me as it is the gear I am using. I am using a Denon AVR3802 reciever as a pre/pro, though, so I don't know how much that would effect the sound. Personally, of the three options, I would also go with the B&K, with the Pioneer being a close second. Instead of Yamaha, I would personally opt for one of the Denon models instead for a third. So B&K lowered thier prices, eh? I am going to have to talk to my dealer and see if they will invoke the "price protection" they seem to like tout around on thier advertising. ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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