BigBusa Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I'm surprised kelly doesn't own a pair of khorns given how knowledgable he is with all things audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Leo: I read about your experiments with PIO crossover capacitors with interest. In his VTV article on the DRD 300B, Jack Eliano also made some comparisons between the use of good film/foil and PIO capacitors in the Ultrapath position. If I could learn how to use a scanner (same old story...), I would send you the article. In short, he observed that high quality PIO capacitors, at least in the case of the ultrapath capicitor, did the exact opposite of what they (PIO caps) are often accused of -- high frequency roll-off. He said he believed the dielectric characteristics of PIO actually improved low-level detail capability, and that 'plastic'(my word) capacitors have an "electrostatic barrier" at low signal levels where charge and discharge can't take place. The bottom line seems to be that PIO capacitors might be more able to pass smaller voltage variations -- which should therefore theoretically off better detail. Strings might be the perfect test for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Erik, glad you started giving oils a chance in gear at the various positions. We used to debate this point in the past. In my view, they are the best I have had in my system, surely the most natural sounding (I still have the vintage oils in my CW as well). BigBusa, the main reason I dont have Khorns is the fact that my listening room is not really the best setup for Khorns. In fact, if honest with myself, the Khorns would probably not do too well here. But I have become so curious about the sound now that I am about to jump in the pit anyway. I havent heard a Klipschorn in many years and NEVER with a good tube amp. I heard them more than a few times in the 70s and the last amp I heard Khorns with was a LINN LK82. IT was actually Tom and Edmond's purchase and description that pushed me over the edge. Who knows... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Erik, Thanks for the note on the pio stuff. The dielectric performance around 0V crossing is #1 on my short list of suspect distortion generators. It is probably significant that caps with dielectric materials able to support higher field intensity (thus smaller geometries) tend to preform worse in a low voltage AC application. I suspect that as the cap plates charge, a more exotic dielectric electrically adapts, giving the material the ability to insulate at high field strengths. This adaptation has to collapse and reverse with each 0V crossing. All the adaptation collapsing-and-reversing then re-adaptation take energy, and not necessarily in a linear fashion. That's my guess .. I'm still looking it up via various cap mfg app. notes and papers. Fun for electrical engineers. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Main difference between KHorn and RF7 is as follows: RF7 is a speaker. KHorn is a religion. True believers have Khorns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 90% of the Klipschorn is in the LaScala. In spite of my experience over the weekend, I still think the RF-7's are killer -- though probably best reserved for small to moderate sized listening rooms. Go with Klipschorns or LaScalas if you have the room, and good auxillary equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 When Marie and I were talking about and pondering the K-horns purchase, we decided that, even if our room dimensions were not ideal right now, the next house we move into (maybe 5 years away)very well might. In fact, that seems to be THE FIRST thing I consider! I don't walk around looking for pantry or cabinet space (which are important!), but for a room best suited for audio and big horn speakers. It turns out that our room seems to be fairly a good match, afterall, though I would prefer a bit more distance front-to-back. The horns are about 21ft apart, and it just astounds me (really!) that even at that distance, I can close my eyes to find a well-delineated (God, that sounds like an audio reviewer!) sonic image of a solo guitar player or vocalist directly in front of me. A spooky-strange sensation! And this even at lower volume levels. Solo classical guitar or violin just doesn't sound right to me at really loud volume levels. On the other hand, King Crimson 'Elephant Talk' sounds just right! But......what might a really good Push-pull amp do with that? I can't help but wonder. Didn't someone just bring up the concept of amplifier-specific music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I would be REALLY interested if all the Khorn users could take a picture of their setup with a camera at the listening position. Add to this, a picture of the room they are in. This has been my major stumbling block with a move to Khorns. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Yeesh Erik, even Craig's POS Dynacos were doing that goofy "imaging" thing. Did you know PK used false corners for his Klipschorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 ALL tube amps do imaging better than 90% of their solid state counterparts. And EVERY tube amp I have heard presents more air and space in the mixture. By space, I mean the distinct separation between music instruments in live recordings. Besides the natural harmonics and great tone, this is what drew my to tubes in general. And good push-pull amps are not exception. Hell, the quality vintage units do this amazingly well. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Dean: I know this might stupid, but..... Whatsa 'POS' Dynaco? I know the Dynaco part, just not the 'POS' part! POS: Professional Occidental Standard POS: Pristine Objective Stereo POS: Primary Oxymoron Source enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 lordy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Thank you for all the kind compliments. I meant my comparisons to be generalizations versus the Reference series loudspeakers, which I have only heard briefly, but also compared to a dozen other conventional loudspeakers which I have seriously auditioned, in my home, with the same equipment and the same music, for EnjoyTheMusic.com. I am a priest in the classic Klipsch corner Khorns religion. I have heard the LaScala in my own home. It is a much better mid-range speaker than the Cornwall Kelly, you would love it. The mid-bass boom that typified my walnut-oiled Cornwall 1s, with their B2 crossover, is missing in both LaScala and Khorn. I would not go so far as to say that it is 90% of the Khorn, because the flat bass adds so much to the accuracy of the mid-range, but LaScala are some 60-80% of the Khorn (and Kelly, they have about the same footprint as the Cornies you have now). Image is taller with Khorns, adding to the 3D sonic illusion. I have a picture like you want Kelly around here somewhere, but not with me at work. The old or cheap tube amplifiers I have heard did as just well as the superlative and thousands times more expensive Pass X250 in the mid and upper ranges, with super-sensitive horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Colin, you certainly have the benefit of experience on your side, but I'm having trouble with the 60% to 80% thing. Same drivers, same lenses, and the only difference is the bass bin. Did you have the LaScalas in corners when you had them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 In response to a suggestion I offered by way of email some months ago, someone quite familiar with tube amplification theory and design asked me what I meant by 'MOV.' "Whatsa MOV?" he asked, and that is an exact quote. I laughed in understanding, since I am continually mystified by the number of things like that floating around these days -- in ALL fields! So, Whatsa POS Dynaco? P-ersonally, O-utstandingly S-erviced Dynaco? I'm sure that would be the truth in Craig's case. Ryan has also remarked on his workmanship, and from the look of the Dynaco PAS 3 preamp recently offered here, I'll agree! I would buy that thing in a second if I had the money. But Mark is also right in that the mechanics of those preamps are not that great over the long haul, and I have found that to be the case with the two PAT 4s I have. They are great, very transparent and quick preamps, just lack some solidity in other aspects. Stil, I think they are a bargain for the kind of sound they are capable of! (ok...of which they are capable.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I'm pretty positive ole Dean was being tongue in cheek... POS = Piece Of Sh!t kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I like !! Primary Oxymoron Source Dean, You are really wanting that snow bank aren't you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Pretty Oily Seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Oh, Man -- see how naive I am!? I've lived away from home since I was 16; traveled all over the place........and can't even figure out that POS might mean Piece Of Sh!t! Didn't even cross my mind! Must be why I fell so easily for the 410V thing...and then actually tried to help out -- LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtber101 Posted December 3, 2003 Author Share Posted December 3, 2003 Ok guys so if i want to get the most out of a pair of k-horns what should i get and or do? preamp amp anything else that might help specific type of cd player etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.