flappycars Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hi, haven't posted for ages but I am the guy in England that uses Klipsch! I have owned many but currently using Forte in a room about 16 X 16 feet. Much better than my Chorus in a room this size. I read with interest some of the conflicting views on SET and views on how speakers like Khorns dont have much depth(!?) then read on to see Khorns being used in rooms smaller than mine. Surely a speaker like Heresy would be better in a room that size? A Many people seem to use speakers too big for the room. Also, this idea that SET is only going to go about as loud as a mobile phone ringtone, or lack bass control, or lack speed and dynamics. I use a parallel single ended (11 watts a side) and speakers with around 100 db efficiency, that is plenty. And I like my music at a realistic listening volume as I like the whole sound to be as natural and realistic as possible. Now, I am not trying to preach to anybody that we should all use SET ( or PP or tranny or anything else) but the idea that it wont work is curious to say the least. Some of the very low power valve amps I have heard also sound good too and with ultra efficient 'speakers should presnt now problem. Surely the problem would be using speakers with less than 90 db efficiency and then trying to get a realistic volume? One more ponit...I like many of you am always looking for a super recording when I buy a cd, only to end up very disapointed. Anything anyone can reccomend I may have missed? I have one for you guys you may have overlooked. Enchantment by Charlotte Church! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Thanks for the post. Yeah, Charlotte Church has a sweet sounding voice. Just a matter of personal taste... soprano solos wear on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 What amplifier are you using? Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 So You're the guy in England with Klipsch speakers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Certainly you're preaching to the choir on the merits of low power amps with high sensitivity speakers. There are several theories why this should be. One is that amps with feedback suffer from a type of intermodular distortion similar to direct radiator drivers. Our ear-brain combination expects that from the combination (or either) and may "process it out" to limited extent even if there is a masking of subtilties of music. However, horn loaded speakers do not have the intermod, and thus any faults with the amp become apparent. The only solution is an amp with no, or artful, feedback. A second is that amps not running in Class A mode has some distortion when the signal crosses the zero point. Pretty much the same theory that there is some distortion at low levels which the horns show up. A third is more generalized and basically says the same thing. If you are running an amp at outputs between 1 milliwatt and 1 watt, it is best to use an amp designed for optimum results in that range of power. This is not to say that all low power amps are good designs. However, if an amp is designed to reach 100 watts, there might be some compromise at 1 milliwatt. (Consider that 1 milliwatt is 30 dB down from 1 watt. If your speaker is rated at 100 dB per watt at 1 meter, you are probably listening to a lot of music at 1 milliwatt or about 70 dB.) On the CD/music issue, I happen to like Telarc and the big orchestral works by the Cincinatti Pops. (Just down the road from Chicago.) Symphonic Star Trek, The Great Fantacy Adventure Album, Round Up, Happy Trails. They're fun. Not everyone's cup of tea, though. Good to hear from you. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Welcome back, John. Happy holidays to you. I'm a newbie to valve amplification (previously owned a British designed AMC CVT1030s tube preamp), having recently purchased an 8 watts per channel BEZ Model T3B Class A 300B SE power amplifier from Edmund Lam of Hong Kong (it has yet to arrive to the states, but I have his BEZ Model Q4B 6SN7 SRPP linestage preamp connected to my SS McIntosh MC250 driving my efficient (98.5dB @ 1M/1W) Cornwalls. With 50 WPC from my MC250, there's lots of available headroom for my Cornwalls while playing large orchestral and/or organ compositions on CD, so I don't even break a sweat listening to these classical works at over 100dB! But now I'm concerned...even though the Cornwalls are 98.5dB at 1 watt/meter, will my 8 WPC BEZ 300B SE amp sputter out of power if I try to increase the volume to near-live levels (I too like my music at realistic levels, to a point)? My small music room is only 12' X 13.5' X 8', so I don't have to listen too loudly, but I'd like to someday relocate my audio system to my formal living room, which is 3 times the size of my current room...I wonder if 8 watts will be enough to satisfy my craving for realistic levels. By the way, I love Church's voice; she shows much promise in the coming years. Some of my more favorite British recordings that you may or may not be familiar with are "The Symphonic Organ" by Adrian Partington on the organ at The Albert Hall, Nottingham (Priory Records: PRCD 479), and "Pipe Organ Spectacular" by Noel Rawsthorne on the Liverpool Cathedral organ (Klavier Records: KCD 11036)...check 'em out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flappycars Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 Hi, Nice to hear from you all. Cin Pops I am familiar with and like very much. Telarc recordings, some good some very good but all very dynamic. You just love making people jump out of their seat when demming the Klipsches! Those organ works I will look out for and 8 watts should give you plenty of power for Klipsch. Can you get Harmonia Mundi recordings in USA? They are very sweet sounding. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flappycars Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 My amp is Unison Research Simply Four Parallel single ended class A ( two EL 34 a side, currently using chinese Golden Dragons and very nic valves they are too and I have a few different makes in the cupboard) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 I would put Khorns in a 16 x 16 room and love it!! It's not about volume, just the immense size of the soundstage. I know of no other speaker that can produce that sensation like a Khorn. If you have good corners, a good listening position, and can afford at get Khorns, you should do it. From your description of how you listen to music, I think you would really enjoy the SET sound, especially with Khorns. That is what I'm currently listening to, and I'm enjoying it very much. For my taste, there just isn't quite enough UMPHH, but a testament to how nice it sounds, is the fact that I haven't changed this setup in months, in spite of having dozens of other amplifiers I could put into the system. Good recordings are hard to come by IMO. I've learned that it's not really about the quality of the mastering or the process of getting the sound onto a disc (although I recognize the importance of all that), but what really makes the difference is how the engineer and producer laid it down in the studio. While that's a subjective evaluation, it's really where the "tire meets the road" in music reproduction. So difficult to search for and find the great recordings. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 The problem flappycars, is not just realistic volume with loudspeakers that are merely above average in sensitivity (>84-86dB/w/m). The problem is also how efficient they are this shows itself in the relatively poor definition of the bass and lower mid-range, even super-sensitive 95db/w/m loudspeakers exhibit this less than ideal sound My disc of the year (now where is that post?) will be Norah Jones incredible jazz debut. Although I have been listening to this disc for most of the year, the sharp clarity and velvety texture of her young yet powerful voice, with her delicate but forceful phrasings, stills catches me by surprise. I am stocking up on Patricia Barber, Cassandra Wilson and Allison Krause, but this one is a winner in my books. Eight Grammies may be overdone, but it is an excellent album nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 ---------------- On 12/29/2003 11:25:45 PM jt1stcav wrote: Welcome back, John. Happy holidays to you. I'm a newbie to valve amplification (previously owned a British designed AMC CVT1030s tube preamp), having recently purchased an 8 watts per channel BEZ Model T3B Class A 300B SE power amplifier from Edmund Lam of Hong Kong (it has yet to arrive to the states, but I have his BEZ Model Q4B 6SN7 SRPP linestage preamp connected to my SS McIntosh MC250 driving my efficient (98.5dB @ 1M/1W) Cornwalls. With 50 WPC from my MC250, there's lots of available headroom for my Cornwalls while playing large orchestral and/or organ compositions on CD, so I don't even break a sweat listening to these classical works at over 100dB! But now I'm concerned...even though the Cornwalls are 98.5dB at 1 watt/meter, will my 8 WPC BEZ 300B SE amp sputter out of power if I try to increase the volume to near-live levels (I too like my music at realistic levels, to a point)? My small music room is only 12' X 13.5' X 8', so I don't have to listen too loudly, but I'd like to someday relocate my audio system to my formal living room, which is 3 times the size of my current room...I wonder if 8 watts will be enough to satisfy my craving for realistic levels. ------------------------------ Hey Jim, That will be interesting to find out when you get your 300b. As you mentioned the question, I thought with considerable confidence that 8wpc will be fine with the Cornwalls. Back in the late spring had a chance to visit with a forum member who was listening to Cornwalls with Welborne Laurels. He's quite a fan of Pink Floyd and we listened to it cranked in a large room. Pretty amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 ---------------- On 12/30/2003 9:49:06 AM DaddyDee wrote: Hey Jim, That will be interesting to find out when you get your 300b. As you mentioned the question, I thought with considerable confidence that 8wpc will be fine with the Cornwalls. Back in the late spring had a chance to visit with a forum member who was listening to Cornwalls with Welborne Laurels. He's quite a fan of Pink Floyd and we listened to it cranked in a large room. Pretty amazing. ---------------- Thanks John and Dee for the vote of confidence. Craig also agrees that 8 WPC should be sufficient...I hope so for my sake. The thrill of feeling the air move from the low 32' pedal bass frequencies (low C = 16Hz) during a live pipe organ recital is truely an awe inspiring experience for me, and I can closely match that "gut feeling" with my Mac. The sweetness and purity of tone is what attracts me to the 300B SE amp, and I only hope that I can still capture (to a point) this experience of the air moving all around me during the low bass notes played on a large pipe organ in a vast space. It's not loud boomy bass that attracts me (God knows the Cornwalls are uncapable of anything under 38Hz), but the rich harmonic structure of the various organ stops all drawn at once for that grande tutti effect...a large scale 32' Contra Bombarde playing the lowest octave with full organ produces such full harmonic structure; it's more felt than heard! I would hate to lose this experience with the 300B...I understand it won't be the same as with the SS McIntosh, but I hope it's close! Yes, I've got quite a collection of organ CDs under the Harmonia Mundi label. Extremely accurate recordings if I do say so myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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