sheltie dave Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Silverfox, I have been to autions and estate sales for over twenty five years, and have always ended up with "gentlemen's agreements." I know what you want, you know what I want, and rather than bidding against each other, we will help each other. If the time comes to sell, there are also quite a few people standing in line to buy. There are people here who want a certain speaker, there are some who need a speaker set, and there are some who deserve a set but don't have the money. Fair price is easily determined on the open market, and I doubt any scribblings on this forum greatly affect selling price. Remember, most sellers first hit their local paper or friends. If I stick something on Ebay rather than sell it here as a member of the forum, it would be a financial situation where I really needed to maximize my "profit," but I would also be maximizing my risk. The only forum member I've ever had a less than satisfactory buying experience with is now selling a set of La Scalas that he is parting out, piece by piece, on Ebay. We have seen multiple examples of bad equipment or lying sellers. What year was that Cornwall? Ebay is all about reserves, buy it now, and starting prices. The seller has advantage in almost every regard. If you suspect collusion to "drive" price down as a seller, set a reserve, throw it on a buy it now, or take it to Audiogon. Don't renege because you listen to poor advice. Withdrawing an auction with seconds left before completion in the cited case was beyond the pale in regard to the seller, if he /she did not contact the highest bidders. PS- there were over 400 sets of La Scalas offered for sale on Ebay and Audiogon last year. Supply and demand microeconomics provide an adequate maket barrier to collusion here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Dave, Well said, I wrote a much more attacking paragraph to silverfox yesterday, than erased and pu NEVERMIND I wish he would stop being such a SCHMUCK already and really get some undersatanding how auctions are SUPPOSE to work Smilin and well put dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Silverfox, in reading through your last post again, I was reminded of a game theory class I attended a few years ago. The class was split into four groups - transport, consumers, raw goods, and manufacturing. Each group was given a set of cost figures, finite resources, and less money than what they needed to stay in business for a "year". After various Type A people failed as managers for three straight classes due to trying to maximize revenue and profits, actual managers and type A/B people were put in charge of the four groups. It took less than half an hour for all four companies to show a profit that enabled them to maintain a functioning business that stayed open. The Klipsch forum can be viwed as a business. You have lone wolves, like contracters, that sell high (and maybe buy low.) You have people buying new. You have people buying gray market, and only are concerned with the lowest price they can get. You have people who can't afford to buy, but are resourceful and can build or find great stuff for dirt. You have people who only buy used because they are cheap or don't like taking the depreciation hit(me), but it all gets rolled in a giant snowball of transactions. The game theory really sets in when you sell something. There are twenty sets of Forum birddogs watching Ebay and Audiogon every day, and they tag things of interest to members. There is gear that is in favor, out of favor, and rising and falling reviews on most everything. With the internet, the relative void of information has disappeared for consumers. I said collusion was nonexistant because there is always a group of ten interested buyers for a valued item. Speakers are the bread and butter, so look at this example. Half of the potential bidders would back off if a respected member stated he was bidding on a set of Scalas. The other half would not, either actively bidding or putting in a snipe for the end. Either way, everyone has a finite bid limit, and will stop bidding at a set price. The winning price for a normal good(which Scalas are) will fall within 10% of its perceived condition value for market, regardless of the presence of five or ten bidders. The most important consideration for buying large Heritage, after condition(or even before condition,) is location. If you start with 50 people looking for the Scalas, 25 would drop w/o bidding due to geography, 15 would drop due to veneer being scuffed Birch. Why worry about the 5 that drop due to a gentlemen's agreement - all 5 will end up with a set by the end of the year. This forum is the best thing ever to hit the market for sellers IF you are not looking to sell used Klipsch for new cost! Just don't confuse looking out for our buds on the forum as taking money out of some poor seller's pocket. In the end, if the seller doesn't get what he wants in a private sale, he won't sell. If he chooses to conduct a transaction on Ebay without reserve and without a sufficient basement, more power to the buyer, and the seller is the one short of ethics for not honoring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98_1LE Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 As I was bidding on a Denon receiver last night with a couple minutes left on an ebay auction, the seller ended the auction. Presumably because it was not going to net what the seller wanted. I was mad for a minute, but what can you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtice Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 ---------------- On 1/12/2004 8:31:18 AM 98_1LE wrote: As I was bidding on a Denon receiver last night with a couple minutes left on an ebay auction, the seller ended the auction. Presumably because it was not going to net what the seller wanted. I was mad for a minute, but what can you do. ---------------- What you can do is complain loudly. Look at the info Tom posted in this thread and file a similar complaint with Ebay. Not that it will change the outcome on this auction, but being outraged in silence only perpetuates the tactic which, as I think we all agree, undermines the foundation that ebay is built on. In my opinion, a simple rule that auctions cannot be cancelled within a certain amount of time of the scheduled close would pretty much fix the problemmaybe the final hour or 30 minutes. The problem with Ebay is that they are in bed with the sellers. Just like a regular auction house... the seller strikes a deal with the auctioneer to sell his stuff. The auctioneer wants to make his customer, the seller, happy and they both want to take home as much of the buyer's money as possible. Neither one has much vested interest in making buyers feel good as long as they continue to bid. If ebay were to perceive that this practice had potential to undermine their bottom line over the long term they would correct it. But the opposite is likely truesellers know they can cancel the auction at the last second they take no risk whatsoever, except the listing fee, and are thus encouraged to list more stuffand pay more listing fees. If the buyer is not outraged, or expresses no outrage, the practice will be seen as nonoffensive. One thing that could be done outside of ebay is for someone to put up a web page that lists sellers who engage in this practice. Maybe even just related to the Klipsch forum and audio gear. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Sholtie Dave! it would seem that with the first statement you made acknowledges my view, i appreciate the time you have taken to explain the inner working's of auctions and i do understand a nod is as good as a wink to a blind man. Smillin there is no reason to attack,the real virtue is understanding. jmo. As you have yours,we're at opposite end of the spectrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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