Q-Man Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Thanks Mungkiman. I can't take credit fot the networks, all I did was supply John Warren with the maple mounting boards. I shipped him a 290 driver,and 311-90 horn to hook up to his equipment. He spent the last couple of months at his test bench and I've had time to goof off. Now the ball is in my hands again and I have to get to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWPATE Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 mungkiman, I will surely keep the mac equipment for a while, as I decide which I prefer. I love them both. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWPATE Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 Istari, My music room is 21 feet square, with an extension on one side for bay windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWPATE Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 Maron, Thanks for that advise. I certainly take an interest in your TAD project. Were you able to fit the drivers inside the Khorns without changing the outward appearance? What did you think of the sound. I expect that you used the TD2002 for mid-range with the fiberglass horn TH2002 and the ET703 for tweeter, is that correct. What did you do for crossover network? I wonder if the ALK network that I already have would suffice. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWPATE Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 Thanks Qman for those photos and the information. Just out of interest, wouldn't it have been easier to just obtain a set of Altec voice-of-the-theater units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWPATE Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 HDBRbuilder, Thank you so for so much information. Yes, the new Hartsfield units would be way over the top for me, and would only make sense if I also replaced all the other components in the system. Still...they were interesting. BTW, I have an set of plans for the Hartsfield as you describe. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Welcome James, Based on what you've said about your '82 K-horns (one of the BEST years, Type AA and solder terminal K-55-Vs), I'd recommend only a few things. Based on my experience with my La Scalas and ALK crossovers, I'd try: 1 - Damping the squawker horn with Dynamat or rope caulk (found in the weatherproofing section of Home Depot. I used Original Dynamat. 2 - Add Rope caulk to the back of the tweeter horn; might be little benefit, but it's nearly free. 3 - If you are really obsessing, place rope caulk or Dynamat on the outside of the woofer basket. 4 - Finally, and this is a toughie, buy "Z" brackets from Klipsch and flush mount your tweeters. This was quite a nice improvement for my La Scalas, but it is easier to do than on K-horns. The "Z" brackers bolt or rivet to the tweeter's screw holes and then push the tweeter forward until the mouth is flush with the front of the mounting board. It requires the opening for the tweeter be enlarged enough for the tweeter's horn to slide through. The K-horn and Belle have had this mod for many years, now. That will make your K-horns as good as they can be. The TAD compression driver most likely to be used in the $30k Hartsfield was probably $2000 each. TAD makes a suitable wood horn for $1200 each, I believe. That will get you a new pair of Belles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 James the Altec Voice of the theater speakers won't do it for me. I want to use a true bass horn which the Altec cabinets arn't. The Altec cabinets don't go low enought eather. The 311-90 horn sounds nicer then the horns used in those speakers. I also want to use a tweeter, and the JBL-2404H is a great one. Sorry for rushing this answer, but I'm getting ready to leave for work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Guys, Here's what I did to the high frequency section of my Belles. This trick should work on the Khorn with the 511b horn as well. The big advantage is that it is completely reversable. You don't need to cut any holes in any of the original Klipsch parts. Of course, these pictures were taken before I painted the spacer and added the grill cloth to the frame. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 JWPAT.... THE tad TD 2003 is a new 1" driver with an interesting new phase plug (400hz to27,000hz) I dont think you,l need a tweeter unless you nee to go up to 45000hz using the TAD ET 703. The Th 2002 horn recommends a low xover of 800hz. Some of my friends use the TAD 4001 & 4002 drivers Plus super tweets ET 703 or Fostex 900. Horns used TH 4001 or wood WESTLAKES Smith horn or JBL 2397 Smith horns (cutoff of 300hz & low end) Some colleges use modified K-401 horns. The Klipsch K33e are hard to beat. Ill be aquireing The TAD 1601a woofer this year for some horn tests. The JBL 2205 has some success & JBL 150-4/K-145 to some degree. The EV & University woofers of good quality are hard to find & the collectors will not let go of them. Im looking for good definition in the 300hz to 500hz . I feel that the K33 suffers in this area although it measures OK it does,nt sound as well defind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWPATE Posted January 12, 2004 Author Share Posted January 12, 2004 Tell me Al, Could I do that to my own Khorns do you think? They are 1982 vintage. What brand components are we looking at in that photo.........Very interested indeed! Thanks one more time for those crossovers, they are GREAT! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 JWPAT...I use a electronic xover tri amped. Using six amps over all. But passive xover is good if well done. If short on amps. But I like to expearment so a quick flip of the switch I can change slopes & cross over points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 James, The mods to my Belles shown in the earlier post picture is the Altec VOT 811b horn. For the Khorn you wouold need the 511b horn, which is biger. The tweeter is the stock K77 (T-35) mounted vertically. I later replaced it with a Beyma CP25 mounted on the grill frame. For more details just click on "My stero stuff" link below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWPATE Posted January 12, 2004 Author Share Posted January 12, 2004 Gentlemen, Please accept my sincere thanks to each of you for helping me with this matter. The outcome of it all in my own mind is that I should leave the Klipsch Khorns alone. I really considered getting into the modifications, particularly that which Al presented. In the end though, I have decided to build the Hartsfield units. Placed the order today for a kit of parts and supplies to include rosewood finish and all T.A.D. drivers. The horns and drivers will be drop shipped soon but it will be six or eight months for the pre-cut wood pieces. So I shall enjoy my old friends, the Khorns for a good while longer. You have all been just great in taking your time out to help another music lover. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Please keep us posted on your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 James, I would like to hear about the Hartsfields when your ready to post about them. I didn't realize that they offered them in a kit form. I bougth a copy of the original plans off of ebay that I plan on using, but I'm not ready to build them yet. Maron, It sounds like you have been doing some interesting stuff. I agree with what you said about the Klipschorn having it's limitations between 300 and 500Hz, but you said that it is because of the K-33E. I believe it is do to the basshorn. The horn begins to roll off at 300Hz. After I tried some different midrange drivers and horns I decided to use the Altec 290-16K driver and the 311/90 horn. I prefered the sound and low range out put from these the best. I had hopes of crossing over to them at 300Hz, since they both have a usable frequency response down to 300Hz. This didn't work out and I'm crossing over to them at 400Hz. I never tried any of the TAD drivers and horns, maybe someday. They are rather expensive for me to experiment with at this time. Now I need to do something with some of the drivers and horns that I ruled out. Althought I did sell some of the stuff that I ruled out on ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 .QMAN ...I have a pair of JBL 2397 SMITH horns (cutoff 300hz) In the process of getting larger SMITH horns (cut off 200hz Will try these. Yes upper bandwidth of bass bin/K33 has been troublesome. But defination has never been clean all around. The JBL2205 does clean this up somwhat. Lower xover will help with propper mid horn. I can dial in lower xover points with my electronic .crossover with ease & change slopes 6, 12, 18, 24 db Ill let you know the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Maron, Have you ever heard the University Classic. It is one clean and very detailed sounding basshorn. John Warren told me about the Classic a couple of years ago. I had to build a pair to see if he was right, and he was. The Classic bass horn isn't without limitations eather, it's good from about 55 to 300Hz. Sometimes I thing that it is the speaker that I should be using. I just can't find the time to try all the things that I would like to. Are the JBL horns that you are talking about the large square shaped ones in their Pro line? I'm guessing abour 30" x 30" mouth and about 33" deep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I am still wondering just which version of the Hartsfield this company is currently manufacturing...the original version from 1954??...OR the redesign from 1959?? Q-man, You can download and print-out a set of Hartsfield plans from the following website: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/plans/harts.htm'>http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/plans/harts.htm They aren't exactly the clearest set around, but they are adequate for use in building one of these...AND much cheaper than buying a set on eBay. As a matter of fact, there are very few old JBL and Altec plans that CAN'T be downloaded from this parent site: http://www.lansingheritage.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 ---------------- On 1/11/2004 3:35:22 PM HDBRbuilder wrote: Now, consider that you were NOT listening to the Hartsfields AND your K-horns in the SAME listening environment, with the SAME upstream components, etc...that may well account for the vast majority of the difference in your listening experiences between the two speakers! ---------------- I think HDBR brings up a very important factor to all speaker performance and comparisons: too many variables including room acoustics. You'd really have to A-B the two speakers to establish what the true differences are. In addition to all that has been recommended, I'd consider look into some room treatments and tweaks given that a square room will produce some pretty strong peaks and nodes (probably in the ±10db to ±15db range) in your frequency response. Ceiling heights of 7 or 9 feet would further worsen the situation. Room tweaks could benefit both your Khorns or your future Hartsfields. Good luck... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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