companion Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Hello i am looking for a fairly cheap sub under 600$ that would be pretty desent for my RF-35 i use it motly for music dont care as much about home theater my room is about 10x20 and i want a nice big sound to compliment my rf-35's so please help and if possible leave me a link so i can get to the site where i can find the sub thank's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz1604 Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I strongly believe that waiting a little longer for a high quality product will benefit you more in the long run. I personally have the RSW-10 and it flows perfectly with my RF-35's. I like 10's because they load faster and are usually more consistent. I say hold out and save some more pennies to get the RSW-10, you will love it and could find one from $675.00-$800.00, depending on where you look. You can always seek the boombasta, masta of the subs, "The Ear" and see what he recommends. This is his stomping ground, so he will be around shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I would say, look at the Rava by Adire Audio. I use their DPL12 driver in my DIY and it sounds great in a 54 Liter box. (The Rava is about 60L). It was great on music and pulls double duty on HT with ease. I changed to a ported 85L because I am using it for HT, but the results are still great for music. But of you were going to go the music route, stick with one of the sealed subs. BTW, the best part about the rave, $400. I almost bought an RW-10 to go with my RB-35, but decided, for the money I could build a better sub. With the help of Dan at Adire and Kyle at www.acoustic-visions.com I was able to easily make my own and not feel any regret. If you have the time and a little ambition, you can make a sub just to your liking. Or, you can use the tried and tested designs (like I did) from Adire Audio. But if DIY isnt your thing, The Rava is worth looking at. Adire Audio Acoustic Visions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 ---------------- On 1/14/2004 12:41:53 AM companion wrote: Hello i am looking for a fairly cheap sub under 600$ that would be pretty desent for my RF-35 i use it motly for music dont care as much about home theater my room is about 10x20 and i want a nice big sound to compliment my rf-35's so please help and if possible leave me a link so i can get to the site where i can find the sub thank's ---------------- Wait and save? There are less expensive subs that will best a RSW10 in clean output and extension as long as you can handle a larger enclosure. The SVS 25-31PCi at $550 is the highest performing sub under $600 IMO and the PB1-ISD is essentially the box version of it but it's tuned 3Hz lower and it costs $50 more because of higher material costs(also shipping will be more because it's heavier than it's cylinder couterpart). If either of those don't fit the bill, then I would suggest the Hsu VTF-2, it's another great performer at a lower price and in a smaller package. Instead of just taking people's word on what's best, I like to see some sort of objective data. Dr. John Johnson took some distortion measurements on a 25-31PCi, he also had a sub that he didn't reveal the name of called "subwoofer x" for comparison. I've later learned that "subwoofer x" = Velodyne HGS-10, you can see some distortion measurements taken under the same condition of the same subs below: There are other review's with similar info taken from Dr. JJ at www.hometheaterhifi.com. Besides this, you can also guestimate on how a 25-31PCi will perform based on how it's cousin the 20-39CS performed in Tom Nousaine's tests. The old SVS 20-39CS driven by a 300W amp managed to hit get 109.5dB in Nousaine's large 7500ft^3 room by taken the 10% distortion limit at 1/3 octave spacing(25,31,40,50, 62Hz) and averaging the numbers together. Now this SVS was an original design using a slightly less capable driver and standard sonotube enclosure with 1" MDF endcaps(I think).Now the 25-31 is tuned higher which mean's it will be able more clean output than the 20-39 from 25Hz and above at the expense of output below 25Hz. You can see from the graph below how the 16-46CS(purple), 20-39CS(red), and 25-31CS(light blue) compare to each other in terms of their frequency response. So going from the original SVS 20-39CS to a current 25-31PCi which has more robust driver, 50% thicker tubing, upgraded 1" baltic birch endcaps, and it's tuned for higher output above 25Hz, I think it's a conservative estimate add 2dB's to the Nousiane number of the 20-39CS which means it would score a 111.5dB over the 25-63Hz range. You can reference this list of all subwoofers that have been tested under the same conditions by Tom Nousaine in order of the 25-63Hz average with 10% distortion limits. The Hsu VTF-2 I mentioned above is also on the TN list below, since it was tested I think the driver has been upgraded but I'm not too sure about that. Click here for TN list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Great post Frankie. I forgot about the SVS (I can't beleive that!). You are right. The cylinder subs are great and if you don't care about the size, they are probably the best value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
companion Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 What about the klipsch rw-12 how would that compare to the rsw's and the svs sub's also what is the web site for the svs or any other recomended sub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Given your parameters, the SVS 20-39PCi, 25-31PCi, PB1-ISD or HSU VTF-2 would all be fine choices. You can get more information at www.svsubwoofers.com and www.hsuresearch.com. FYI, HSU recently reduced the factory-direct price of their VTF-2s. Frankie: great post as usual. I do not think the VTF-2's driver has been revised since that evaluation. I believe VTF-2 is still using the same tried and true driver. No complaints here, however. ---------------------- Downstairs Harmon Kardon AVR 525 Mains: Klipsch RF3II Center: Klipsch RC3II Surrounds: RS35 Left Rear: RC35 Right Rear: KLF-C7 SVS 20-39PCi SVS PB2-ISD (incredible!) Upstairs Yamaha RX-V1300 Mains, Center: Onkyo SKS-HT500 Surrounds: Axiom QS-8 HSU VTF-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
companion Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 so you think i will be most happy with one of the svs sub's like 25-31pci sub's would that have alot of impact and excell in home theater 10% and music 90% i want somthing with good low's will get loud and have alot of punch throughout the whole listening area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 ---------------- On 1/14/2004 9:35:58 PM companion wrote: so you think i will be most happy with one of the svs sub's like 25-31pci sub's would that have alot of impact and excell in home theater 10% and music 90% i want somthing with good low's will get loud and have alot of punch throughout the whole listening area ---------------- I think so...it has good extension and verified high output with low distortion. The only reason it wouldn't sound it is because of improper setup. I've heard a DIY sub using the original SVS CS driver(in addition to the 20-39CS Plus and CS Ultra) and all are great with music and home theater. The only thing that could ruin it would be room acoustics but experimentation with placement can take care of that. It should still come under $600 after shipping, my CS Ultra cost a surprising $28 to ship to VA and that's with a bigger enclosure and a driver that probably weighs twice as much as the ISD. cjgeraci, Thanks for the compliment on the posting, I do know that Hsu has some new versions coming out with an upgraded driver with piano gloss enclosures and cool blue Hsu signs...they come at a higher price though. You can see pics below: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/show-report-ces2004-page-3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
companion Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 I dont know alot about all of the audio stuff but where would i put or what would be the best for it or the best location i am proabbaly going to put it against the wall be tween two dresser's and on the apposite side of each is the rf-35's my bed is right in front where i would put it about 4 feet in front of my bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Frankie: You are welcome. Thanks for the advance pics of the new VTFs. I will always be a fan of both HSU and SVS. Two fine companies producing great products. --------------------- Downstairs Harmon Kardon AVR 525 Mains: Klipsch RF3II Center: Klipsch RC3II Surrounds: RS35 Left Rear: RC35 Right Rear: KLF-C7 SVS 20-39PCi SVS PB2-ISD (incredible!) Upstairs Yamaha RX-V1300 Mains, Center: Onkyo SKS-HT500 Surrounds: Axiom QS-8 HSU VTF-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 ---------------- On 1/14/2004 9:35:58 PM companion wrote: so you think i will be most happy with one of the svs sub's like 25-31pci sub's would that have alot of impact and excell in home theater 10% and music 90% i want somthing with good low's will get loud and have alot of punch throughout the whole listening area ---------------- Either a SVS or a HSU. I adore (and own) subs from both companies. The SVS 25-31pci will give you the smallest footprint, yet it should pack a tremendous punch throughout your entire listening area. Frankie recently posted a great video clip from Tech TV in this section entitled "SVS on TV." You should check it out. I believe that is a 25-31PCi they are running in the clip. One thing I would ask yourself is how your significant other will react to the size/shape of the cylinder (if that is a consideration). I personally think my SVS cylinder is a work of art, but my wife does not see it that way. As for the HSU VTF-2, I am continually surprised that a sub that small can put out the amount of performance it does (and for the money). Excellent musical sub. If a box is your preference, this is one aethestically-pleasing sub that also packs a tremendous wallop. Given its size and budget, it would also be a fine choice. Be happy; you have a number of outstanding options. ---------------- Downstairs Harmon Kardon AVR 525 Mains: Klipsch RF3II Center: Klipsch RC3II Surrounds: RS35 Left Rear: RC35 Right Rear: KLF-C7 SVS 20-39PCi SVS PB2-ISD (incredible!) Upstairs Yamaha RX-V1300 Mains, Center: Onkyo SKS-HT500 Surrounds: Axiom QS-8 HSU VTF-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
companion Posted January 16, 2004 Author Share Posted January 16, 2004 I am not married so it doesnt matter what is look's like i want good performance i was actually thinking of spending a little more money and getting the pci 16-46 model for better home theater i wont use it much but when i got all the guy's over watching a movie i want to have excellent low's and i think it actually look's pretty cool i would prefer that over a box even though they are bigger than my RF-35's 40 inches tall and 9 wide 14 deep the sub is 46 inches tall that is a big *** sub though would that have as much or more punch for music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 ---------------- On 1/16/2004 11:34:01 PM companion wrote: I am not married so it doesnt matter what is look's like i want good performance i was actually thinking of spending a little more money and getting the pci 16-46 model for better home theater i wont use it much but when i got all the guy's over watching a movie i want to have excellent low's and i think it actually look's pretty cool i would prefer that over a box even though they are bigger than my RF-35's 40 inches tall and 9 wide 14 deep the sub is 46 inches tall that is a big *** sub though would that have as much or more punch for music? ---------------- The lower you tune a sub the less midbass punch you'll get. If punchy bass for music is what you're looking for, I'd recommend the 25-31PCi or the PB2-ISD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Good point Frankie. That is one of the reasons why I added my PB2-ISD: much more punch for music. For the money, it is an incredible buy, and the SVS founders, Tom and Ron, have called it their best "bang for the buck." It has a lot of punch in the midrange, yet is tunable with plugs down to 16hz. It is a large enclosure though, so I would make a cardboard mockup of it to see if it fits into your space/decor. I realize that $899 (plus shipping) is a good deal of money to spend on a sub, but for me, the money was well worth it. Remember, SVS has a 45 day return policy if it does not live up to your expectations. A great sub providing a combo of midrange punch and ability to dig low. I did not mention it previously because of its cost. ------------------- Downstairs Harmon Kardon AVR 525 Mains: Klipsch RF3II Center: Klipsch RC3II Surrounds: RS35 Left Rear: RC35 Right Rear: KLF-C7 SVS 20-39PCi SVS PB2-ISD (incredible!) Upstairs Yamaha RX-V1300 Mains, Center: Onkyo SKS-HT500 Surrounds: Axiom QS-8 HSU VTF-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Another option for you might also be the SVS plus cylinder series, which are also variable-tuned by port. A 25-31plus would be tunable down to movie depth (16hz), yet it still should give you plenty of punch for music. Oh, the choices . . . ------------------- Downstairs Harmon Kardon AVR 525 Mains: Klipsch RF3II Center: Klipsch RC3II Surrounds: RS35 Left Rear: RC35 Right Rear: KLF-C7 SVS 20-39PCi SVS PB2-ISD (incredible!) Upstairs Yamaha RX-V1300 Mains, Center: Onkyo SKS-HT500 Surrounds: Axiom QS-8 HSU VTF-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
companion Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 i will need to look at the 25-31 plus but is it worth the extra 100$ or so above the pci16-46 cause i want to get the best sub i can for a good price i bought a pair of bose 701 which every though where awesome the time i bought them but when you tirn them up it sound's like someone ripping paper but i will look at the 25-31 plus but i would not want to spend any more than that though and how do you tune it down to 16hz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 A 25-31PC Plus will give you around 3-4dB more clean output over a 25-31PCi. If you're more concerned with extension then get the 16-46PCi or PC Plus, if you want more output and punch then get the 25-31PCi or PC Plus, if you want a mix of both then get the 20-39PCi or PC Plus. Tuning a 25-31PC Plus to 16Hz will diminish it's punch and severely limit it's output down low. It will only leave one three inch port for the dB-12 driver which is equivalent to you running a mile and breathing through a straw the whole way. Like I said, buy the appropriate sub for your needs instead of plugging the ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
companion Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 well i am not as conserned about the movie's mostly music with alot of punch i am sure they will sound just great for movie's though and music if i get the 25-31 pc plus cause would have alot of punch and some pretty good low's couldnt you plug just one of the port's on the sub instead of 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 I say get one of the 25-31's, which one you get depends upon your listening habits. If you're doing mostly music then I think a 25-31PCi should be plenty. One other thing you can also do with the PCi/CS lines is have them retune the 25-31PCi from 25Hz to 22Hz for no additional cost. Just make sure you let them know you want it before you order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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